Limping - Pocket A's on the button

peter27

Hey guys,

I'm in the process of improving my play, but confused about something ..

Many experts (Tikay being the main one) say don't limp in to a hand and raise instead with good cards. I've been using this method, but a few times now I've recieved pocket A's - while on the button - and it didn't work out. I did a min raise pre-flop but then everybody folds and I don't get paid ...

Am I doing something wrong? Am I just unlucky? Perhaps just calling (limping) would be better instead so at least it gets more people in the hand? Surely if you have a good hand you initially want as many people as possible to the flop, so limping is better?

AcidMan27

In Response to Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

Hey guys, I'm in the process of improving my play, but confused about something .. Many experts (Tikay being the main one) say don't limp in to a hand and raise instead with good cards. I've been using this method, but a few times now I've recieved pocket A's - while on the button - and it didn't work out. I did a min raise pre-flop but then everybody folds and I don't get paid ... Am I doing something wrong? Am I just unlucky? Perhaps just calling (limping) would be better instead so at least it gets more people in the hand? Surely if you have a good hand you initially want as many people as possible to the flop, so limping is better?
Posted by peter27

The trouble with suddenly limping into a hand is decent players will spot that you've limped when you normally come in with a raise.

We don't then want to start limping every hand because......

A: You're not building the pot to get max value from your hands
B: You're limiting your options on winning the hand. This means there are times when we will just pick up the blinds, which is still fine, every little helps. We also have the chance to rep stronger hands and bluff people off marginal hands because we've raised pre.

You've just been unlucky so far in that nobody has had a strong enough hand they want to call you with.

GELDY

In Response to Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

Surely if you have a good hand you initially want as many people as possible to the flop, so limping is better?
Posted by peter27

No!

AA is the best hand pre - but only 1 pair after most flops - so you don't want lots of random hands that might hit 2 pairs, straight and flush draws. ideally you only want one opponent - and often, as you have found out, you get none.

For suited connectors, however, multiway pots are good, as if you hit your draw you are happy to have big pairs and the like pay you off.

peter27

Interesting responses, thanks guys! Big help :-)

jams88

Definatly keep raising! If you are finding you are getting folds alot start thinking about widening your preflop range (raise open a few other hands) this means your picking up the blinds more often uncontested and when people start calling your raises all the better for when you have the good hands

I think the best way to think about the AA is if we limp the button and blinds call there are 3 big blinds in the pot to win 1 of whcih was yours to start with. and you bet say 2.5 bb on the flop 1 caller its now 8bb in pot

if you raise 3x get 1 caller its now 6.5bb in pot you can bet 4.5b and now there is 15.5bb in the pot you can see how much easier it is to grow the pot in a riased pot.

If this isn't very clear (i know im not always good at writing down my thought process) let me know and i will try again lol

Good Luck at the tables

profman15

Hi sir

There's a phrase..."falling in love with aces" and comes from people seeing this hand pre and almost expecting that a big pot pot will come their way soon. Consequently they lose focus post flop as shown by the numbers i see going all-in with one pair and being called with min of two pairs etc. 

I would say though, don't do anything different than normal which should be raising pre. Limping is poor play unless you expect a raise and can then trap pre. Making notes on players on what they do early, middle and late concerning reraises, ai's and flush draws etc will gain big benefits as they will help you to become focussed. 

All the best and gl at the tables.

peter27

In Response to Re: Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

Definatly keep raising! If you are finding you are getting folds alot start thinking about widening your preflop range (raise open a few other hands) this means your picking up the blinds more often uncontested and when people start calling your raises all the better for when you have the good hands I think the best way to think about the AA is if we limp the button and blinds call there are 3 big blinds in the pot to win 1 of whcih was yours to start with. and you bet say 2.5 bb on the flop 1 caller its now 8bb in pot if you raise 3x get 1 caller its now 6.5bb in pot you can bet 4.5b and now there is 15.5bb in the pot you can see how much easier it is to grow the pot in a riased pot. If this isn't very clear (i know im not always good at writing down my thought process) let me know and i will try again lol Good Luck at the tables
Posted by jams88

Actually that helped a lot, thanks!!

In Response to Re: Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

Hi sir There's a phrase..."falling in love with aces" and comes from people seeing this hand pre and almost expecting that a big pot pot will come their way soon. Consequently they lose focus post flop as shown by the numbers i see going all-in with one pair and being called with min of two pairs etc.  I would say though, don't do anything different than normal which should be raising pre. Limping is poor play unless you expect a raise and can then trap pre. Making notes on players on what they do early, middle and late concerning reraises, ai's and flush draws etc will gain big benefits as they will help you to become focussed.  All the best and gl at the tables.
Posted by profman15

Thanks :-)

calcalfold

Dont listen to this lot.

I would prefer you to limp pre, maybe check the flop, min bet the turn and go crazy on the river

Slowplay de aces

peter27

In Response to Re: Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

Dont listen to this lot. I would prefer you to limp pre, maybe check the flop, min bet the turn and go crazy on the river Slowplay de aces
Posted by calcalfold

I guess there is no one right way to play. Although Tikay (teacake as i like to call him) strongly disagrees with you judging by his comments on the TV channel!

GELDY

he isn't advising you to play that way because it is good for you but because it is good for him so he can take advantage of you. hence the "i would prefer you to...." 

not all comments on the forum will be designed to help you - some are, unfortunately unhelpful or downright nasty, and others may be designed to be humorous (although not necessarily to the opening poster). Let's give calcal the benefit of the doubt this time and ascribe his comments to the "attempting to be funny" category

hhyftrftdr

Very poor attempt Geldy.

peter27

In Response to Re: Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

he isn't advising you to play that way because it is good for you but because it is good for him so he can take advantage of you. hence the "i would prefer you to...."  not all comments on the forum will be designed to help you - some are, unfortunately unhelpful or downright nasty, and others may be designed to be humorous (although not necessarily to the opening poster). Let's give calcal the benefit of the doubt this time and ascribe his comments to the "attempting to be funny" category
Posted by GELDY

I thought that post didn't sound quite right, thanks for the heads up! :-)

calcalfold

In Response to Re: Limping - Pocket A's on the button:

he isn't advising you to play that way because it is good for you but because it is good for him so he can take advantage of you. hence the "i would prefer you to...."  not all comments on the forum will be designed to help you - some are, unfortunately unhelpful or downright nasty, and others may be designed to be humorous (although not necessarily to the opening poster). Let's give calcal the benefit of the doubt this time and ascribe his comments to the "attempting to be funny" category
Posted by GELDY

Hands up here, you got me.

Spot on detective work re my choice of phrase, I used"I would prefer to you" for that very reason.