It must be said that every day is "almost" double points day in sit and goes and MTT's. 10 points per pound compared to 6 points per pound in cash.
Anyway, that's not really what I was going to say:
Battle Of The Planets on Stars is undoubtedly (I think) the best SNG promotion out there. Why not copy this, albeit on a smaller scale?
Now I'll provide a possible answer to my own question:
A promotion such as BOTP works on Stars because of the enormous traffic. How can you expect a smaller version on Sky to draw away that traffic? Well, you can't.
It must be said that every day is "almost" double points day in sit and goes and MTT's. 10 points per pound compared to 6 points per pound in cash. Anyway, that's not really what I was going to say: Battle Of The Planets on Stars is undoubtedly (I think) the best SNG promotion out there. Why not copy this, albeit on a smaller scale? Now I'll provide a possible answer to my own question: A promotion such as BOTP works on Stars because of the enormous traffic. How can you expect a smaller version on Sky to draw away that traffic? Well, you can't. Posted by BorinLoner
The effect of the extra points per pound is outweighed by the reduced rake.
If I play 200 £5 sng's/mtts and didn't get ANY points whatsoever but got rake of 7.5% like cash I would be better off! Cash players have extra promo's on top of this 7.5% rake also. Realise this wasn't your main point but I felt the need to comment.
To save people wanting to check the maths:
Current (10% rake and points): 200 games at £5. Total Stake = £1000 Total Rake = £100 Total points = 1000 pts Value of points (@1.5p per point) = £15 Rake less reward= £85
7.5% no points: as above total stake = £1000 Total rake = £75
You can't compare the value of the rake in cash against the cost of the fees in an MTT or SNG. It's not comparing apples with apples.
Amongst other things, you pay rake on every hand that sees a flop on a cash table, so the amount of money available to the table is reduced over time. The same is not true in tournaments where the whole amount of the prize pool is secure.
Rake is also not paid as a percentage of your actual stack, it's drawn from the amount put in the pot. In MTT's and SNG's, you effectively pay a little over 9% of your buy-in as fees before you even start but then that's it, you pay no more.
Rake and tournament fees are not the same thing.
The only relevant fact regarding the rakeback received is the amount paid in rake or fees to the site, and therefore taken "off the table". Every pound paid for MTT poker generates 166% of the rewards points for a pound paid at a cash table. That's just how it is.
You can't compare the value of the rake in cash against the cost of the fees in an MTT or SNG. It's not comparing apples with apples. Amongst other things, you pay rake on every hand that sees a flop on a cash table, so the amount of money available to the table is reduced over time. The same is not true in tournaments where the whole amount of the prize pool is secure. Rake and tournament fees are not the same thing. The only relevant fact regarding the rakeback received is the amount paid in rake or fees to the site, and therefore taken "off the table". Every pound paid for MTT poker generates 166% of the rewards points for a pound paid at a cash table. That's just how it is. Posted by BorinLoner
surely then you cant compare points per pound cash vs mtt/sng for the same reasons.
In Response to Re: Double Poker Points -Another promotion aimed at cash players only....... : surely then you cant compare points per pound cash vs mtt/sng for the same reasons. Posted by jdsallstar
No, as I say the relevant figure is the amount taken "off the table" by the fees or rake. That's how much you're paying for the service the poker site provides.
MTT's and SNG's return a higher rakeback (before 10k points) for the same service, relative to the cash tables.
I edited my last post before your reply. The basic point I was adding is that tournament fees are a single flat fee paid at the start of the tournament, effectively charged as a proportion of your total stack. Rake in cash is generated by the amount you draw from each pot...
Borin you'll have to give me a degree of leeway here as I'm not overly familiar with the intracies of how cash games are raked/awarded points but I don't see how it's fair to compare points per pound on one hand and then say its unfair to compare rake per pound on other.
You can compare rakeback per pound paid on cash tables to rakeback per pound on MTT's because you're just judging points per pound paid to the poker site. It's comparing rakeback to rakeback.
You can't compare rake on cash tables to fees in tournaments, though. They're just not the same.
Rake on cash tables is paid as either 7.5% or 5% of every pot that goes to a flop, up to a maximum of (IIRC) £1.60 or £1.80. It's not charged as a percentage of the amount you sit down with. If nobody tops-up their stacks at a cash table and you keep playing, eventually the money on the table reaches zero and you've all paid 100% of your pull-up in rake (Obviously that would never happen in reality but it could in theory). The longer you play, the more you pay.
Fees are charged as a flat rate at the start of every tournament. 9% of your total buy-in goes to the site... but then no more. No matter how long you play, only 9% of your money is paid to the site. Obviously that's different to paying 7.5% of the amount you win from each pot.
If a cash player pays £1 to the site he gets 6 reward points. If an MTT player pays £1 to the site he gets 10 reward points. How many hands each of those £1 comes from is unknown. The profit or loss each player made from those hands is also unknown. It's just that they've both paid £1 and one has received more reward points than the other.
It must be said that every day is "almost" double points day in sit and goes and MTT's. 10 points per pound compared to 6 points per pound in cash. Anyway, that's not really what I was going to say: Battle Of The Planets on Stars is undoubtedly (I think) the best SNG promotion out there. Why not copy this, albeit on a smaller scale? Now I'll provide a possible answer to my own question: A promotion such as BOTP works on Stars because of the enormous traffic. How can you expect a smaller version on Sky to draw away that traffic? Well, you can't. Posted by BorinLoner
In Response to Re: Double Poker Points -Another promotion aimed at cash players only....... : Am I missing something? The SnG pay 1 pt per pound Posted by DUNMIDOSH
I think you mean that you only get one point for a £1.10 SNG. The buy-in is £1.10 but only £1 of that goes into the prize pool. The other 10p is the fee you're paying to the site, so that 10p is the amount you're paid reward points on.
The potential for earning of reward points table on table cash v stt in the same time period is why the discrepancy in points per £,which are also offset by happy hours & early birds(for lower earners).
But what has that got to do with the lack of viable promotions for stt's and why cash get more?
Keep hearing we are looking at this and make suggestions and here we are again and stt area is getting like a ghost town.
I am a rec playing mico's so never going to win a rake race or hand marathon they just stop me playing I don't want to be sat with the same 4+ players at every table for a weekend or week depending.There has got to be better way of getting a wider player base for the games without relying on the high volume handful to make them work.
Lots ideas good & not have been made in the past year and.......
The potential for earning of reward points table on table cash v stt in the same time period is why the discrepancy in points per £,which are also offset by happy hours & early birds(for lower earners). But what has that got to do with the lack of viable promotions for stt's and why cash get more? Keep hearing we are looking at this and make suggestions and here we are again and stt area is getting like a ghost town. I am a rec playing mico's so never going to win a rake race or hand marathon they just stop me playing I don't want to be sat with the same 4+ players at every table for a weekend or week depending.There has got to be better way of getting a wider player base for the games without relying on the high volume handful to make them work. Lots ideas good & not have been made in the past year and....... Posted by belsibub
It may be easier to accrue reward points in a shorter time on cash tables, but that's because you're paying additional rake in that shorter time. That's not an argument in defence of £1 rake in cash being worth fewer points than £1 of fees in MTT's. Gathering reward points isn't the aim of the game, after all. It's just a little incentive to play higher volume, therefore paying more rake. Whether it's easier to gain them in cash isn't really an issue, it's the price you're paying for them that is an issue.
Clearly there's no real reason for Sky to increase their reward points for cash. That would just cost them a bundle and probably wouldn't increase traffic. I suspect that's the reason why it hasn't been adjusted.
What it's got to do with the question of respective promotions between MTT's/SNG's and cash is that it was suggested that Double Points Week is some sort of special privilege being given to cash tables. The truth is that MTT's and SNG's receive almost that much the rest of the time anyway. So this week there are 200% points on cash but every week there's 166% points in MTT's and SNG's. Happy Hour and Early Bird - the regular cash points promotions - only give 150% points.
Complaining that a promotion for cash is unfair on SNG or MTT players when it merely temporarily offsets the usual advantage of playing SNG's and MTT's isn't reasonable. You could look upon the 10 points per pound raked in SNG's and MTT's as being a very long-running 'Promotion' for these games. If you're viewing the Double Points Week for cash tables as a promotion, then that's how you should look at the usual reward point system in SNG's and MTT's.
I tend to agree that promotions like Big Deal and Sit and Go Champ, which only encouraged people to play super-high volume, weren't the best for recreational players like you and I. However, that super-high volume is good for Sky and that is what they want from any promotion. The trick would seem to be to find a promotion for SNG's that both i) requires reasonably high volume and ii) rewards successful play in those SNG's. Promotions that reward break even or only slight winning play across super-high volume ruin the games by encouraging nittiness. It also leaves recreational players without a hope of winning the promotion money.
That's why BOTP is the best promotion for SNG's in my opinion. You're required to play at least one batch of 20 games per week, but points are awarded for success in those games. That leads to the games being played aggressively as players go for the win, and that keeps things interesting for recreational players. 20 games isn't too much to play in a week for your average recreational player, either, so it doesn't exclude them. Nor does it offer a lack of advantages to the higher volume players as there is no limit to the 20 game batches you can play and it's the best batch that counts. There's also a separate 'High Volume' section for players who play 100 game batches.
The problem for Sky is how to apply something like that while BOTP exists on Stars, attracting all the traffic. Obviously BOTP isn't appropriate for DYM's since there is no inherent incentive in DYM's to go for the win. So if we're only talking about regular SNG's, how do you draw traffic away from Stars if Sky's 'BOTP alternative' is not nearly as lucrative?
Answer: You don't.
The result is that the only SNG promotions that are likely to happen on Sky are the ones that are viable for DYM's. Since DYM's don't encourage aggressive play, it's impossible to see how these promotions won't just be further purely volume rewarding promos.
As for MTT promotions, there are lots of freerolls and the additional Jackpot money. You don't have to pay any rake at all to play freerolls like the Poker Premiership so it's literally free money. I have some sympathy with the Sky peeps who don't understand these complaints that MTT's aren't backed enough.
The thing is with sngs is that if for example you play hu games there are ways of enhancing your rewards payout if you get less than 10k points per month.
Say you are rolled to play £10 hu sngs, which yield 5 points per game, then instead you play 2 x £5 which yield 3 points per game. Your rewards tally is instantly uplifted by 20% for playing the same monetary volume. The same applies as you move up in stakes.
Sky dont have to give you 3 points for 25p rake. But the fact that they do regardless of whether a promo is on, shouldnt be ignored.
The blunt truth is that this Promotion is aimed at cash players because.......they constitute the vast majority of players, & play, on the site.
Most poker sites generate twice as much traffic from cash as MTT's & SNG's combined, hence Cash based Promotions are far & away the most frequent on every Online Poker Site.
You can compare rakeback per pound paid on cash tables to rakeback per pound on MTT's because you're just judging points per pound paid to the poker site. It's comparing rakeback to rakeback. You can't compare rake on cash tables to fees in tournaments, though. They're just not the same. Rake on cash tables is paid as either 7.5% or 5% of every pot that goes to a flop, up to a maximum of (IIRC) £1.60 or £1.80. It's not charged as a percentage of the amount you sit down with. If nobody tops-up their stacks at a cash table and you keep playing, eventually the money on the table reaches zero and you've all paid 100% of your pull-up in rake (Obviously that would never happen in reality but it could in theory). The longer you play, the more you pay. Fees are charged as a flat rate at the start of every tournament. 9% of your total buy-in goes to the site... but then no more. No matter how long you play, only 9% of your money is paid to the site. Obviously that's different to paying 7.5% of the amount you win from each pot. If a cash player pays £1 to the site he gets 6 reward points. If an MTT player pays £1 to the site he gets 10 reward points. How many hands each of those £1 comes from is unknown. The profit or loss each player made from those hands is also unknown. It's just that they've both paid £1 and one has received more reward points than the other. Posted by BorinLoner
I don't see how you can say it's fair to judge points per fees paid to the site if you think its unfair to compare fees paid to the site in the first place. For want of better phrase the foundation of the comparison isn't the same.
There is obviously a lot of differences between how cash and sng/mtt's are raked but there's positives and negative sides to both. For example you mention if you sit down and no-one tops up eventually the money or prize fund on the table could reach zero in theory. Obviously that's true but on the other hand in theory three players could go all in first hand you could treble up and leave the table having paid the lower rake (in comparison to mtt/sng). You also mention because of this (i.e. rake reduces prize pool in cash) the prize pool is secure in MTT's but not in cash the other side of this of course is that the percentage of the prize pool a player can win is limited to less than 50% in mtt's/sng's. On a cash table this is not true and potentially a player could win up to 100% (less rake) in theory.
What i'm trying to say in general is that there is obviously a lot of nuances to each format and raking systems but that's each individual players choice and it's up to them to weigh up the pros and cons of both. What does remain universal is that for his gamble the cash player is raked less than 7.5% whereas the mtt/sng players is raked 10% for his gamble.
I've got a feeling we've hijacked this thread enough and we could go round and round in circles on this issue for some time so might be best to just leave it (obviously feel free to respond to this post should you wish to). I appreciate the points you raised and more importantly the way in which you raise them. Very often on the site when things like this get discussed the thread can quickly get out of control and before long become personal and insulting. So I thank you for that.
The blunt truth is that this Promotion is aimed at cash players because.......they constitute the vast majority of players, & play, on the site. Most poker sites generate twice as much traffic from cash as MTT's & SNG's combined, hence Cash based Promotions are far & away the most frequent on every Online Poker Site. Posted by Tikay10
This thread could have been a two post thread if this had been the response to the OP!!
Whilst it's perfectly understandable that sky and other poker rooms run promotions for their most profitable and most popular areas it's hard not to feel disheartened and have the overall feeling that the rake I and other mtt and sng players contribute to the site is not as valued as those of cash players. Thanks for taking the time to respond in this thread though!
In Response to Re: Double Poker Points -Another promotion aimed at cash players only....... : This thread could have been a two post thread if this had been the response to the OP!! Whilst it's perfectly understandable that sky and other poker rooms run promotions for their most profitable and most popular areas it's hard not to feel disheartened and have the overall feeling that the rake I and other mtt and sng players contribute to the site is not as valued as those of cash players. Thanks for taking the time to respond in this thread though! Posted by jdsallstar
No worries, you are very welcome.
Unfortunately, I have been up in Newcastle for the SPT since 7am Friday, got back at 1am this morning, & so have not been on the Community since Thursday.
In Response to Re: Double Poker Points -Another promotion aimed at cash players only....... : I don't see how you can say it's fair to judge points per fees paid to the site if you think its unfair to compare fees paid to the site in the first place. For want of better phrase the foundation of the comparison isn't the same.
There is obviously a lot of differences between how cash and sng/mtt's are raked but there's positives and negative sides to both. For example you mention if you sit down and no-one tops up eventually the money or prize fund on the table could reach zero in theory. Obviously that's true but on the other hand in theory three players could go all in first hand you could treble up and leave the table having paid the lower rake (in comparison to mtt/sng). You also mention because of this (i.e. rake reduces prize pool in cash) the prize pool is secure in MTT's but not in cash the other side of this of course is that the percentage of the prize pool a player can win is limited to less than 50% in mtt's/sng's. On a cash table this is not true and potentially a player could win up to 100% (less rake) in theory.
What i'm trying to say in general is that there is obviously a lot of nuances to each format and raking systems but that's each individual players choice and it's up to them to weigh up the pros and cons of both. What does remain universal is that for his gamble the cash player is raked less than 7.5% whereas the mtt/sng players is raked 10% for his gamble.
I've got a feeling we've hijacked this thread enough and we could go round and round in circles on this issue for some time so might be best to just leave it (obviously feel free to respond to this post should you wish to). I appreciate the points you raised and more importantly the way in which you raise them. Very often on the site when things like this get discussed the thread can quickly get out of control and before long become personal and insulting. So I thank you for that. Posted by jdsallstar
Everything you've said in this post is correct apart from the bolded parts. You see, I'm not saying that MTT's are "better value" than cash or vice versa, I'm saying they can't be compared. It's like saying "Which game is better value for my £10; Scrabble or Monopoly?" The only answer is "Whichever one you enjoy more." So comparing 7.5%/5% rake to 9%* fees is not possible because you're comparing the cost of two very different things.
The bolded part is the problem, though. When you compare Reward points received for £1 of cash rake to £1 of tournament fees, you're comparing Player A's £1 paid to the site with Player B's £1 paid to the site. You're simply comparing £1 with £1 so the foundation of this comparison is the same. To carry on the board game analogy; you buy scrabble and I buy monopoly, both for £10. We get to the counter and you're given a big tub of Quality Street as a free gift and I'm given a Chomp bar.
Now, if that tub of Quality street is clearly advertised as an incentive for buying Scrabble, then I will have no complaints. However, if for one week the incentive changes and Monopoly is included in that Quality Street promotion, why should someone buying Scrabble complain about that? This is the heart of the matter.
The Double Points week on cash tables is a similar advantage enjoyed by SNG's and MTT's year round. It's not an advantage being placed on the cash tables. There's nothing stopping those SNG and MTT players from getting on the cash tables (or buying Monopoly) if they think it's such a great promotion.
*It is a little over 9% fees, btw. The tournament may be advertised as buy-in + fees but in a £10+£1 tournament, the cost to you is still £11. The percentage of that £11 which you're paying in fees is 9%.
I'm not gonna join in with the debate but am I missing something or going mad.... a £10 MTT is £10 + £1... that's 10% not 9% Posted by Lambert180
Probably both... You pay £11, £1 of that doesn't make it to the prize pool. The proportion of fees is therefore 1/11 = 9%
To add to the debate, I would add that enhanced prizes are also promotions, so include the DTD Monday and Orfordable Friday. Paul also ran an STT comp when the structures were changed, and numbers for that were disappointing.
Comments
Anyway, that's not really what I was going to say:
Battle Of The Planets on Stars is undoubtedly (I think) the best SNG promotion out there. Why not copy this, albeit on a smaller scale?
Now I'll provide a possible answer to my own question:
A promotion such as BOTP works on Stars because of the enormous traffic. How can you expect a smaller version on Sky to draw away that traffic? Well, you can't.
If I play 200 £5 sng's/mtts and didn't get ANY points whatsoever but got rake of 7.5% like cash I would be better off! Cash players have extra promo's on top of this 7.5% rake also. Realise this wasn't your main point but I felt the need to comment.
To save people wanting to check the maths:
Current (10% rake and points):
200 games at £5.
Total Stake = £1000
Total Rake = £100
Total points = 1000 pts
Value of points (@1.5p per point) = £15
Rake less reward= £85
7.5% no points:
as above total stake = £1000
Total rake = £75
Amongst other things, you pay rake on every hand that sees a flop on a cash table, so the amount of money available to the table is reduced over time. The same is not true in tournaments where the whole amount of the prize pool is secure.
Rake is also not paid as a percentage of your actual stack, it's drawn from the amount put in the pot. In MTT's and SNG's, you effectively pay a little over 9% of your buy-in as fees before you even start but then that's it, you pay no more.
Rake and tournament fees are not the same thing.
The only relevant fact regarding the rakeback received is the amount paid in rake or fees to the site, and therefore taken "off the table". Every pound paid for MTT poker generates 166% of the rewards points for a pound paid at a cash table. That's just how it is.
MTT's and SNG's return a higher rakeback (before 10k points) for the same service, relative to the cash tables.
I edited my last post before your reply. The basic point I was adding is that tournament fees are a single flat fee paid at the start of the tournament, effectively charged as a proportion of your total stack. Rake in cash is generated by the amount you draw from each pot...
You can't compare rake on cash tables to fees in tournaments, though. They're just not the same.
Rake on cash tables is paid as either 7.5% or 5% of every pot that goes to a flop, up to a maximum of (IIRC) £1.60 or £1.80. It's not charged as a percentage of the amount you sit down with. If nobody tops-up their stacks at a cash table and you keep playing, eventually the money on the table reaches zero and you've all paid 100% of your pull-up in rake (Obviously that would never happen in reality but it could in theory). The longer you play, the more you pay.
Fees are charged as a flat rate at the start of every tournament. 9% of your total buy-in goes to the site... but then no more. No matter how long you play, only 9% of your money is paid to the site. Obviously that's different to paying 7.5% of the amount you win from each pot.
If a cash player pays £1 to the site he gets 6 reward points. If an MTT player pays £1 to the site he gets 10 reward points. How many hands each of those £1 comes from is unknown. The profit or loss each player made from those hands is also unknown. It's just that they've both paid £1 and one has received more reward points than the other.
Clearly there's no real reason for Sky to increase their reward points for cash. That would just cost them a bundle and probably wouldn't increase traffic. I suspect that's the reason why it hasn't been adjusted.
What it's got to do with the question of respective promotions between MTT's/SNG's and cash is that it was suggested that Double Points Week is some sort of special privilege being given to cash tables. The truth is that MTT's and SNG's receive almost that much the rest of the time anyway. So this week there are 200% points on cash but every week there's 166% points in MTT's and SNG's. Happy Hour and Early Bird - the regular cash points promotions - only give 150% points.
Complaining that a promotion for cash is unfair on SNG or MTT players when it merely temporarily offsets the usual advantage of playing SNG's and MTT's isn't reasonable. You could look upon the 10 points per pound raked in SNG's and MTT's as being a very long-running 'Promotion' for these games. If you're viewing the Double Points Week for cash tables as a promotion, then that's how you should look at the usual reward point system in SNG's and MTT's.
I tend to agree that promotions like Big Deal and Sit and Go Champ, which only encouraged people to play super-high volume, weren't the best for recreational players like you and I. However, that super-high volume is good for Sky and that is what they want from any promotion. The trick would seem to be to find a promotion for SNG's that both i) requires reasonably high volume and ii) rewards successful play in those SNG's. Promotions that reward break even or only slight winning play across super-high volume ruin the games by encouraging nittiness. It also leaves recreational players without a hope of winning the promotion money.
That's why BOTP is the best promotion for SNG's in my opinion. You're required to play at least one batch of 20 games per week, but points are awarded for success in those games. That leads to the games being played aggressively as players go for the win, and that keeps things interesting for recreational players. 20 games isn't too much to play in a week for your average recreational player, either, so it doesn't exclude them. Nor does it offer a lack of advantages to the higher volume players as there is no limit to the 20 game batches you can play and it's the best batch that counts. There's also a separate 'High Volume' section for players who play 100 game batches.
The problem for Sky is how to apply something like that while BOTP exists on Stars, attracting all the traffic. Obviously BOTP isn't appropriate for DYM's since there is no inherent incentive in DYM's to go for the win. So if we're only talking about regular SNG's, how do you draw traffic away from Stars if Sky's 'BOTP alternative' is not nearly as lucrative?
Answer: You don't.
The result is that the only SNG promotions that are likely to happen on Sky are the ones that are viable for DYM's. Since DYM's don't encourage aggressive play, it's impossible to see how these promotions won't just be further purely volume rewarding promos.
As for MTT promotions, there are lots of freerolls and the additional Jackpot money. You don't have to pay any rake at all to play freerolls like the Poker Premiership so it's literally free money. I have some sympathy with the Sky peeps who don't understand these complaints that MTT's aren't backed enough.
Sky dont have to give you 3 points for 25p rake. But the fact that they do regardless of whether a promo is on, shouldnt be ignored.
The blunt truth is that this Promotion is aimed at cash players because.......they constitute the vast majority of players, & play, on the site.
Most poker sites generate twice as much traffic from cash as MTT's & SNG's combined, hence Cash based Promotions are far & away the most frequent on every Online Poker Site.
There is obviously a lot of differences between how cash and sng/mtt's are raked but there's positives and negative sides to both. For example you mention if you sit down and no-one tops up eventually the money or prize fund on the table could reach zero in theory. Obviously that's true but on the other hand in theory three players could go all in first hand you could treble up and leave the table having paid the lower rake (in comparison to mtt/sng). You also mention because of this (i.e. rake reduces prize pool in cash) the prize pool is secure in MTT's but not in cash the other side of this of course is that the percentage of the prize pool a player can win is limited to less than 50% in mtt's/sng's. On a cash table this is not true and potentially a player could win up to 100% (less rake) in theory.
What i'm trying to say in general is that there is obviously a lot of nuances to each format and raking systems but that's each individual players choice and it's up to them to weigh up the pros and cons of both. What does remain universal is that for his gamble the cash player is raked less than 7.5% whereas the mtt/sng players is raked 10% for his gamble.
I've got a feeling we've hijacked this thread enough and we could go round and round in circles on this issue for some time so might be best to just leave it (obviously feel free to respond to this post should you wish to). I appreciate the points you raised and more importantly the way in which you raise them. Very often on the site when things like this get discussed the thread can quickly get out of control and before long become personal and insulting. So I thank you for that.
Whilst it's perfectly understandable that sky and other poker rooms run promotions for their most profitable and most popular areas it's hard not to feel disheartened and have the overall feeling that the rake I and other mtt and sng players contribute to the site is not as valued as those of cash players. Thanks for taking the time to respond in this thread though!
Unfortunately, I have been up in Newcastle for the SPT since 7am Friday, got back at 1am this morning, & so have not been on the Community since Thursday.
The bolded part is the problem, though. When you compare Reward points received for £1 of cash rake to £1 of tournament fees, you're comparing Player A's £1 paid to the site with Player B's £1 paid to the site. You're simply comparing £1 with £1 so the foundation of this comparison is the same. To carry on the board game analogy; you buy scrabble and I buy monopoly, both for £10. We get to the counter and you're given a big tub of Quality Street as a free gift and I'm given a Chomp bar.
Now, if that tub of Quality street is clearly advertised as an incentive for buying Scrabble, then I will have no complaints. However, if for one week the incentive changes and Monopoly is included in that Quality Street promotion, why should someone buying Scrabble complain about that? This is the heart of the matter.
The Double Points week on cash tables is a similar advantage enjoyed by SNG's and MTT's year round. It's not an advantage being placed on the cash tables. There's nothing stopping those SNG and MTT players from getting on the cash tables (or buying Monopoly) if they think it's such a great promotion.
*It is a little over 9% fees, btw. The tournament may be advertised as buy-in + fees but in a £10+£1 tournament, the cost to you is still £11. The percentage of that £11 which you're paying in fees is 9%.
So the £1 fees are 1 of 11. that's 9%. Well, 9.090909...%
To add to the debate, I would add that enhanced prizes are also promotions, so include the DTD Monday and Orfordable Friday. Paul also ran an STT comp when the structures were changed, and numbers for that were disappointing.