I think FD just had a horrible week and his frustration has boiled over he,ll be orate and i know he knows what everbody has said he,ll pretty much agree with,chin up daggers and win the orfy tonight
I think FD just had a horrible week and his frustration has boiled over he,ll be orate and i know he knows what everbody has said he,ll pretty much agree with,chin up daggers and win the orfy tonight Posted by stokefc
You answered a lot of the questions you asked yourself in your opening post. I've never quite understood why anybody would criticise poor play unless your genuinely looking for a solid and advanced game of poker. Also, if it wern't for poor play a lot of people in the business wouldn't have a job.
I think FD just had a horrible week and his frustration has boiled over he,ll be orate and i know he knows what everbody has said he,ll pretty much agree with,chin up daggers and win the orfy tonight Posted by stokefc
I'll reply to this quoting stoke as he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I said in my first paragraph that it wasn't a moan about bad beats or bad play but then I went off on one saying exactly that. Sky Poker has been good for me and I was wrong to criticise like I did. I wanted to give my opinion on why i thought Sky needed to rethink 1 or 2 things and totally lost focus. When i play poker I try to play the best I can and have looked to improve my game. The ironic thing is before I joined Sky as a player I watched the poker channel all the time and it helped me become a better player, not least of all Tikays advice on the shows so I owe you an apology Tikay. It was wrong for me to single you out like that. I just found it very frustrating to see players with experience playing so poorly but as Borin Loner said experience doesn't mean good and I let feelings get the better of me.
Simon I agree totally with you these players are our bread and butter and I should have made that clear in my opening paragraph or better still stuck to what I really wanted to say.
I would like to add it's not just been a bad week as Stoke said for various reasons I've had a bad few months and maybe things just got on top of me. I just wish I had read it all back and then pressed cancel.
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : I'll reply to this quoting stoke as he pretty much hit the nail on the head. I said in my first paragraph that it wasn't a moan about bad beats or bad play but then I went off on one saying exactly that. Sky Poker has been good for me and I was wrong to criticise like I did. I wanted to give my opinion on why i thought Sky needed to rethink 1 or 2 things and totally lost focus. When i play poker I try to play the best I can and have looked to improve my game. The ironic thing is before I joined Sky as a player I watched the poker channel all the time and it helped me become a better player, not least of all Tikays advice on the shows so I owe you an apology Tikay. It was wrong for me to single you outlike that. I just found it very frustrating to see players with experience playing so poorly but as Borin Loner said experience doesn't mean good and I let feelings get the better of me. Simon I agree totally with you these players are our bread and butter and I should have made that clear in my opening paragraph or better still stuck to what I really wanted to say. I would like to add it's not just been a bad week as Stoke said for various reasons I've had a bad few months and maybe things just got on top of me. I just wish I had read it all back and then pressed cancel. Posted by FlyingDagg
Its pathetic that people think its ok to single Tikay out anytime anything bad is said about anything then come back with the oh im sorry story.
He is great for this site, without sounding up his axx lol. Just look at the post on show nite with him compare to the rest of the shows. A ll he ever does is help you guys & bite his tongue when hes in the firing line.
Criticism of Bounty Hunters always make me smile. They're by far Sky's biggest hit and the players vote accordingly with their buy-ins at every level from £2.30 to £110. Since I joined in 2009 bounty tournaments here have always been far more popular than the equivalent freezeouts, even where the rake is 50% higher. I'm sure I won't be the only person here who's noticed that the worlds biggest online poker room has recently introduced 'Progressive Knockout' tournaments, including a high-profile WCOOP event. They are essentially a carbon copy of Sky's Bounty Hunter format. You know when those guys copy you you're doing something right. My experience of other sites is very much the same as Don's. You see the same crazy play wherever you go at my buy-ins, it's no better or worse here than anywhere else in my opinion. Posted by GaryQQQ
You see gary, this is a paradox, yes they are the most popular format on the site, but do they attract new players? Probably not.
It was really refreshing to see sky introduce a speed rebuy with a decent gtee last night, on the worlds biggest site these are easily more popular than bounty hunters. I believe that it is the variety of mtt's with decent guarantees rather than the quantity (ie dont oversaturate the schedule) that will help to attract new players. Who wants to play a low stakes mtt with 10 min blinds where you might cash for £50 after 3/4 hours toil??!!
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : I'll reply to this quoting stoke as he pretty much hit the nail on the head. I said in my first paragraph that it wasn't a moan about bad beats or bad play but then I went off on one saying exactly that. Sky Poker has been good for me and I was wrong to criticise like I did. I wanted to give my opinion on why i thought Sky needed to rethink 1 or 2 things and totally lost focus. When i play poker I try to play the best I can and have looked to improve my game. The ironic thing is before I joined Sky as a player I watched the poker channel all the time and it helped me become a better player, not least of all Tikays advice on the shows so I owe you an apology Tikay. It was wrong for me to single you out like that. I just found it very frustrating to see players with experience playing so poorly but as Borin Loner said experience doesn't mean good and I let feelings get the better of me. Simon I agree totally with you these players are our bread and butter and I should have made that clear in my opening paragraph or better still stuck to what I really wanted to say. I would like to add it's not just been a bad week as Stoke said for various reasons I've had a bad few months and maybe things just got on top of me. I just wish I had read it all back and then pressed cancel. Posted by FlyingDagg
No apology needed Daggy, honestly. You were at least polite! I'd rather these things were directed at me, as I can deal with them better that way. I can assure you I get FAR worse, & every day.
We all have bad days, & you've been big enough to say so, & do it publically.
I'll tell you a pet loathing of mine now. I get insulted & verbally abused a LOT on here, & often, the Poster then realises they were wrong. So they apologise - via PM! Really makes my head spin, that, if someone has a pop at me in public & then apologises in private, the apology is worthless.
Have a great weekend Daggy, & get yourself over to the "Weekend Thread".
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : +1 We are not all on here to grind out multi-table cash or DYMs, or try and bink a fast action MTT shovefest Some of us just want to enjoy a good game of poker and low stakes good structure tourneys are ideal for that. Posted by Phantom66
Really?? Do the ten min blind bh's give you a better standard than the speeds? I don't think so, you still get tons of donkage and a slower death imo. Playing one of these at a time would be nothing short of tedious.
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : +1 We are not all on here to grind out multi-table cash or DYMs, or try and bink a fast action MTT shovefest Some of us just want to enjoy a good game of poker and low stakes good structure tourneys are ideal for that. Posted by Phantom66
Morning Phantom.
Fair comment, very fair comment.
By definition, a lot of the chat & comment on a poker Community is by those who "grind" the game, 12 Table etc, & of course they are important to the Business.
However.......BY FAR the greater majority, collectively worth far far more, are the regular guys, the you & me's, who just like to enjoy the game as a fun hobby, & we rarely play more than 2 or 3 Tables at a time. These people are the bedrock of this & every other poker site, & we should never forget that.
3 months ago I was playing a $3,000 WSOP PLO8 Event. This week, I have played around 50 £5 PLO8 DYM's, & I can honestly say, I've enjoyed that just as much as that Big One, more in some ways, as I can relax in these £5 jobbies, & I get to share Tables with a whole bunch of regular players who sall just sit there & have a little fun. I just have to try & find a way to beat these DYM's now - it ain't easy!
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : Really?? Do the ten min blind bh's give you a better standard than the speeds? I don't think so, you still get tons of donkage and a slower death imo. Playing one of these at a time would be nothing short of tedious. Posted by ACEGOONER
Each to their own GoonerBloke, we all enjoy different things.
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : Really?? Do the ten min blind bh's give you a better standard than the speeds? I don't think so, you still get tons of donkage and a slower death imo. Playing one of these at a time would be nothing short of tedious. Posted by ACEGOONER
When I have the time I would rather play a good structure MTT than anything else. Don't always have the time which is why I would STT rather than play a fast structure MTT. In B/H's in particular yes you are still going to get the chase the bounty shove/call wide mentality - in a slow structure you can pick your moments and take advantage of that.
For me there is more enjoyment in it, more play, opportunity for banter etc... Plus if you have an edge on many of the field, easier to exploit in a longer structure.
and as Tikay says each to their own!
I wont begrudge you enjoying whatever formats you enjoy.
About 6 years ago, for Channel 861 (think it was Ch 843 then?), they used to send me to do little "evening with tikay" things (lol, I know, mock away, I don't care!), & we'd spend the evening playing poker, & a camera chappie or lady would film it & it would go on the Channel.
I went to the house of a family one evening, I think it was a sort of "prize" (booby variety?) for winning some Promo, or the "Take on tikay" Tournament or something.
Anyway, it was quite a thing.
The Dad ONLY played deepstacks, he played the (then) 7.30 & 8.30 Deepstacks EVERY night. I asked him why.
"With a bit of luck, & with two deepstacks on the go, I can play all evening for about a tenner, if I go deep in one or even both, happy days, I've had a great evening playing poker for 3 or 4 hours".
Seems reasonable, or it did to me.
The Mum, however, was COMPLETELY different.
She ONLY played Turbo DYM's or Turbo Tourneys.
She wanted a MAXIMUM of half an hour at a time. So she'd play for 20 or 30 minutes, then cook the dinner, have dinner with the family, watch Corrie, then play another Turbo jobbie, as she wanted it to finish before Brookside (or whatever) started.
Both of them LOVED their poker, but enjoyed TOTALLY different types of poker.
It's quite amazing how we see, day after day, "Bounty hunters/Freezeouts/whatevers are rubbish & there are too many/not enough".
Everyone likes different things, & many lack tolerance to the views of others. "Me me me" is fair enough, but "me" comes in many different shapes, sizes, & preferences.
Trying to look after, in this example, Mum AND Dad is quite a difficult thing.
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : Yeah for me its like comparing Arsene Wengers Arsenal with George Grahams ! Entertainment ftw ! Posted by ACEGOONER
Brilliant analogy!
They both get the same job done (or did), but in very different ways. Both got a ton of criticism, too. You can please some of the peeps, some of the time.....
Always enjoy your contributions you consistently demonstrate that you actually CARE about the punters and this community and look for ways to improve the site for all tastes.
Obviously "the suits" need to focus on bottom line and may be tempted to tinker with structures based on entries. Please keep standing up for us smaller guys who are recreational players and play for enjoyment.
Big +1
PL08 now there is a format I don't enjoy - too many calculations in too short a time and have misread a few hands when there was no low!
getting my head around PLO though and dabble in DYMs every now and then. Early stages usually works to play only genuine Omaha hands in early rounds. However as they don't come around so often I do struggle with what a good range is to open / call with when the blinds are biting.
In Response to Re: Sky Poker - A poor reputation? : Its pathetic that people think its ok to single Tikay out anytime anything bad is said about anything then come back with the oh im sorry story. He is great for this site, without sounding up his axx lol. Just look at the post on show nite with him compare to the rest of the shows. A ll he ever does is help you guys & bite his tongue when hes in the firing line. Posted by seppe
Yes I agree with you totally and that is why I apologised to him. What I said was totally out of character for me (not just about Tikay but other things too) Sorry you were so offendedby it Seppe.
Morning Tikay Always enjoy your contributions you consistently demonstrate that you actually CARE about the punters and this community and look for ways to improve the site for all tastes. Obviously "the suits" need to focus on bottom line and may be tempted to tinker with structures based on entries. Please keep standing up for us smaller guys who are recreational players and play for enjoyment. Big +1 PL08 now there is a format I don't enjoy - too many calculations in too short a time and have misread a few hands when there was no low! getting my head around PLO though and dabble in DYMs every now and then. Early stages usually works to play only genuine Omaha hands in early rounds. However as they don't come around so often I do struggle with what a good range is to open / call with when the blinds are biting. Posted by Phantom66
Disclaimer – I struggle to beat PLO & PLO8 DYM’s, I just about break even, so maybe I’m not best qualified to give you any help, but I actually think I teach the game (at the basic level) better than I can play it, as I’m such a nit. I do play very technically correct, though, FWIW.
Anyway, all regular (one table) SNG’s & DYM’s work to much the same Formula, the whole thing is understanding stack dynamics & when you have to start shoving.
Let’s take a PLO DYM as an example.
This is all about one thing only – how we play when four handed.
Up until then, nothing matters too much, but it is important NOT to bleeds too much of our 2,000 starting stack away.
In Levels one & two, in PLO, it IS OK to peel & limp much more so than in NLH. But try to avoid the dreadful practice of trying to see a cheap flop every hand, it is the road to ruin, unless we get lucky.
Be selective, remember position, & STOP limping & peeling once you are down to 1,600 or 1,700.
When we get 4 handed, the Blinds are usually about 200-400, or 300-600. With 12,000 chips in play @ 300-600, the AVERAGE stack is 5 Bigs. This might sound odd to an MTT or Cash player, but it is perfectly standard in a DYM.
So we have a 5 or 6 BB stack to play with, & this is the crucial stage.
NEVER limp now, ever ever ever.
TRY to be the opener & POT IT, the max bet. Commit to it – if someone repots it, NO MATTER WHAT, we ain’t folding.
ALWAYS try to be the one who opens – remember, MOST TIMES they will fold, so your odds change dramatically.
Only be the caller (all-in) or re-raiser if your hand is VERY VERY STRONG, or if Matey Boy has less than 2 Bigs.
Remember, always, it is better to shove with a marginal than call with a marginal. Much easier, too.
What sort of hands to push with?
Hands that have several ways of winning.
A naked pair of Jacks (say, J-J-7-3) is pretty useless really.
Much better to have some decent equity against ANY hand with, say, J-10-9-8 double suited, or any “big” rundown.
Big Aces, as long as they are not naked, are fine, too.
A-K-x-x is good, A-Q-x-x, A-J-x-x, these are all good at this stage. All paint is good, too, or even three paint.Hope that helps a bit. Naked pairs are VERY vulnerable though.
Comments
I said in my first paragraph that it wasn't a moan about bad beats or bad play but then I went off on one saying exactly that. Sky Poker has been good for me and I was wrong to criticise like I did. I wanted to give my opinion on why i thought Sky needed to rethink 1 or 2 things and totally lost focus. When i play poker I try to play the best I can and have looked to improve my game. The ironic thing is before I joined Sky as a player I watched the poker channel all the time and it helped me become a better player, not least of all Tikays advice on the shows so I owe you an apology Tikay. It was wrong for me to single you out like that. I just found it very frustrating to see players with experience playing so poorly but as Borin Loner said experience doesn't mean good and I let feelings get the better of me.
Simon I agree totally with you these players are our bread and butter and I should have made that clear in my opening paragraph or better still stuck to what I really wanted to say.
I would like to add it's not just been a bad week as Stoke said for various reasons I've had a bad few months
and maybe things just got on top of me. I just wish I had read it all back and then pressed cancel.
He is great for this site, without sounding up his axx lol. Just look at the post on show nite with him compare to the rest of the shows. A ll he ever does is help you guys & bite his tongue when hes in the firing line.
Me
We all have bad days, & you've been big enough to say so, & do it publically.
I'll tell you a pet loathing of mine now. I get insulted & verbally abused a LOT on here, & often, the Poster then realises they were wrong. So they apologise - via PM! Really makes my head spin, that, if someone has a pop at me in public & then apologises in private, the apology is worthless.
Have a great weekend Daggy, & get yourself over to the "Weekend Thread".
We are not all on here to grind out multi-table cash or DYMs, or try and bink a fast action MTT shovefest
Some of us just want to enjoy a good game of poker and low stakes good structure tourneys are ideal for that.
Fair comment, very fair comment.
By definition, a lot of the chat & comment on a poker Community is by those who "grind" the game, 12 Table etc, & of course they are important to the Business.
However.......BY FAR the greater majority, collectively worth far far more, are the regular guys, the you & me's, who just like to enjoy the game as a fun hobby, & we rarely play more than 2 or 3 Tables at a time. These people are the bedrock of this & every other poker site, & we should never forget that.
3 months ago I was playing a $3,000 WSOP PLO8 Event. This week, I have played around 50 £5 PLO8 DYM's, & I can honestly say, I've enjoyed that just as much as that Big One, more in some ways, as I can relax in these £5 jobbies, & I get to share Tables with a whole bunch of regular players who sall just sit there & have a little fun. I just have to try & find a way to beat these DYM's now - it ain't easy!
For me there is more enjoyment in it, more play, opportunity for banter etc... Plus if you have an edge on many of the field, easier to exploit in a longer structure.
and as Tikay says each to their own!
I wont begrudge you enjoying whatever formats you enjoy.
Enjoyment is in the eye of the beholder!
About 6 years ago, for Channel 861 (think it was Ch 843 then?), they used to send me to do little "evening with tikay" things (lol, I know, mock away, I don't care!), & we'd spend the evening playing poker, & a camera chappie or lady would film it & it would go on the Channel.
I went to the house of a family one evening, I think it was a sort of "prize" (booby variety?) for winning some Promo, or the "Take on tikay" Tournament or something.
Anyway, it was quite a thing.
The Dad ONLY played deepstacks, he played the (then) 7.30 & 8.30 Deepstacks EVERY night. I asked him why.
"With a bit of luck, & with two deepstacks on the go, I can play all evening for about a tenner, if I go deep in one or even both, happy days, I've had a great evening playing poker for 3 or 4 hours".
Seems reasonable, or it did to me.
The Mum, however, was COMPLETELY different.
She ONLY played Turbo DYM's or Turbo Tourneys.
She wanted a MAXIMUM of half an hour at a time. So she'd play for 20 or 30 minutes, then cook the dinner, have dinner with the family, watch Corrie, then play another Turbo jobbie, as she wanted it to finish before Brookside (or whatever) started.
Both of them LOVED their poker, but enjoyed TOTALLY different types of poker.
It's quite amazing how we see, day after day, "Bounty hunters/Freezeouts/whatevers are rubbish & there are too many/not enough".
Everyone likes different things, & many lack tolerance to the views of others. "Me me me" is fair enough, but "me" comes in many different shapes, sizes, & preferences.
Trying to look after, in this example, Mum AND Dad is quite a difficult thing.
They both get the same job done (or did), but in very different ways. Both got a ton of criticism, too. You can please some of the peeps, some of the time.....
Always enjoy your contributions you consistently demonstrate that you actually CARE about the punters and this community and look for ways to improve the site for all tastes.
Obviously "the suits" need to focus on bottom line and may be tempted to tinker with structures based on entries. Please keep standing up for us smaller guys who are recreational players and play for enjoyment.
Big +1
PL08 now there is a format I don't enjoy - too many calculations in too short a time and have misread a few hands when there was no low!
getting my head around PLO though and dabble in DYMs every now and then. Early stages usually works to play only genuine Omaha hands in early rounds. However as they don't come around so often I do struggle with what a good range is to open / call with when the blinds are biting.
Disclaimer – I struggle to beat PLO & PLO8 DYM’s, I just about break even, so maybe I’m not best qualified to give you any help, but I actually think I teach the game (at the basic level) better than I can play it, as I’m such a nit. I do play very technically correct, though, FWIW.
Anyway, all regular (one table) SNG’s & DYM’s work to much the same Formula, the whole thing is understanding stack dynamics & when you have to start shoving.
Let’s take a PLO DYM as an example.
This is all about one thing only – how we play when four handed.
Up until then, nothing matters too much, but it is important NOT to bleeds too much of our 2,000 starting stack away.
In Levels one & two, in PLO, it IS OK to peel & limp much more so than in NLH. But try to avoid the dreadful practice of trying to see a cheap flop every hand, it is the road to ruin, unless we get lucky.
Be selective, remember position, & STOP limping & peeling once you are down to 1,600 or 1,700.
When we get 4 handed, the Blinds are usually about 200-400, or 300-600. With 12,000 chips in play @ 300-600, the AVERAGE stack is 5 Bigs. This might sound odd to an MTT or Cash player, but it is perfectly standard in a DYM.
So we have a 5 or 6 BB stack to play with, & this is the crucial stage.
NEVER limp now, ever ever ever.
TRY to be the opener & POT IT, the max bet. Commit to it – if someone repots it, NO MATTER WHAT, we ain’t folding.
ALWAYS try to be the one who opens – remember, MOST TIMES they will fold, so your odds change dramatically.
Only be the caller (all-in) or re-raiser if your hand is VERY VERY STRONG, or if Matey Boy has less than 2 Bigs.
Remember, always, it is better to shove with a marginal than call with a marginal. Much easier, too.
What sort of hands to push with?
Hands that have several ways of winning.
A naked pair of Jacks (say, J-J-7-3) is pretty useless really.
Much better to have some decent equity against ANY hand with, say, J-10-9-8 double suited, or any “big” rundown.
Big Aces, as long as they are not naked, are fine, too.
A-K-x-x is good, A-Q-x-x, A-J-x-x, these are all good at this stage. All paint is good, too, or even three paint. Hope that helps a bit. Naked pairs are VERY vulnerable though.
Hope that helps a bit.