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Erm...
jams88
Member Posts: 694
This is what i want to happen on the river. Wait is it? wtf?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancejams88Small blind £0.10£0.10£19.90RyanC7Big blind £0.20£0.30£19.80 Your hole cards67 jams88Raise £0.30£0.60£19.60RyanC7Call £0.20£0.80£19.60Flop 823 RyanC7Check jams88Bet £0.60£1.40£19.00RyanC7Call £0.60£2.00£19.00Turn 5 RyanC7Check jams88Bet £1.50£3.50£17.50RyanC7Call £1.50£5.00£17.50River 5 RyanC7Check jams88Bet £3.40£8.40£14.10RyanC7All-in £17.50£25.90£0.00
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancejams88Small blind £0.10£0.10£19.90RyanC7Big blind £0.20£0.30£19.80 Your hole cards67 jams88Raise £0.30£0.60£19.60RyanC7Call £0.20£0.80£19.60Flop 823 RyanC7Check jams88Bet £0.60£1.40£19.00RyanC7Call £0.60£2.00£19.00Turn 5 RyanC7Check jams88Bet £1.50£3.50£17.50RyanC7Call £1.50£5.00£17.50River 5 RyanC7Check jams88Bet £3.40£8.40£14.10RyanC7All-in £17.50£25.90£0.00
Comments
Chasing flushes that are that low will lose you a lot of money long term.
I hope you realise that you were actually bluffing not drawing?
Flop bet size is ok if you are representing strength. However with the check/call I would slow down. You are obviously behind now and are very possibly drawing dead to a higher flush.
If you did call and take pot down, I hope it was with a very good player read rather than a hunch/gamble because readless you have to assume worst hand opponent here is a much higher flush.
Giving up the betting on the turn would be terrible, in my opinion. We've added an open-ender to our flush draw. We must continue betting the turn. Even if we do get a caller, we can put so much pressure on his one pair hands on the river and have a huge number of outs.
On the river, we're looking at a very read dependent decision. It looks like a strong hand, but it's such a strong rep that he could easily be bluffing. If we think he's capable of checking his one-pairs for showdown value, realising that if you bet, you must have a better hand, he can rep super strength by check-raising big.
That's levelling a bit, though. In a vacuum we make the fold and wait till we've figured the guy out a bit more. If we do eventually decide that the villain is taking tricky, deceptive lines like this, we should decide this isn't a good opponent to be playing HU cash with.
People will say that refusing action to good players is bumhunting. They're right. Bumhunters rarely lose their money, though.
However was not saying fold pre - maybe take a free card on turn - although thinking about it that does signpost the hand as a draw so scrub that.
river bet still very much player read dependant, still cant see them shipping with hands we beat though apart from bluff.
if villain really is that aggro would hope to have a read on that.
Agree on turn - still got to be a fold though.
if villain is check/calling a pair for showdown then goes for it on a paired/flush board he has to be putting our hero on a big pair only? Hard to see how he would have hero on a low flush draw that they can put down. Even harder to see how villain would c/r all-in to push 2 pair off that board? Wouldn't hero have just checked behind on river?
Readless could be wrong - may have found a bum just don't know it yet
1st things 1st i think its important to point out that i suck at HU im playing here to get a table started as there wernt any running at my level at the time so i opened a few i'm happy to play for 10mins or so to try and get a game going and improve my HU game. Won't give specific reads as i have left villians name in by accident but from what i have seen from playing villian in the last few days he seems like a fairly solid reg.
I intially bet the river for value then when villian shoves puzzling it out i think he is doing this for value i havent seen anything yet that tells me villian can turn a pair into a bluff so am giving him credit. That said was wondering from more expierenced HU players is it ever correct to fold a flush in HU i presume if it is this would be the sort of situation?
I did fold and am fairly happy that i actually managed a b/f usually its bet/know i should fold but call anyway like a donk
passive, passive, passive, massive could obviously be a big bluff but equally could be super strong - to start with or by the river.
I can think of a few scenarios where the play makes sense with board...
flopped huge and got stronger on river 88?
flopped a draw and made it to nut flush or even str8 flush.
Could even be 55 which got v lucky
I cant see many scenarios where the bluff line makes sense. maybe overpair ending up repping a flush draw, maybe if wasn't a paired board.
Generally like to see a villain shove and note what with before I start calling such big overbets. Been told that's too nitty on low level cash but on this hand I'm still folding.
Had a brief chat with rancid and another forum reg about this last night. The prevailing feeling was that we could expect the villain to play his sets and two-pairs faster on the flop and turn, to gain value. We also felt there was a good chance that the villain would play his flush draws faster as a semi-bluff at some stage.
I can't claim credit for all those thoughts, but I do agree with them.
Readless it remains a fold. However, if we know villain to be creative and aggressive, he could very easily be calling a weak pair on the flop and turn, but realising that he's beat when we bet the river.
Flushes also form a higher proportion of the villain's perceived range than they do of ours by the river. Overpairs would likely 3-bet pre-flop. So he's repping a flush or nothing.
If he does have a flush, would he check the river to us, knowing that we could easily check back one-pair hands?
Good arguments for a call with reads.
I was watching a rerun on 865 yesterday and there was an anaylst on with Jen Mason i hadn't seen before it was the poker clinic episode about 3betting...Anywho he pointed out that the river check shove is pretty much never a bluff (he also went on to say that for the reason we should use it as a bluff occasionally) and i tend to agree with him i don't think i have ever seen anyone do this with air except myself and fail miserably at it lol
Still think we can call here, though.
would think villian would think that your going to check behind with all non flushies
if villian has better and checked river over then gg wp sir
even though it could be argued villian is leaving money on table by checking river and/or not getting more money in sooner
gg