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Did i shove at the wrong time
limmy01
Member Posts: 83
This was the final stages of the tournament,there weere 31 players left my stack was halfway below the av and the blinds were starting to make a big den't... Did i push to soon and if so how much longer could i have held out ....
| Small blind | 600.00 | 600.00 | 23580.00 | ||
| mickee | Big blind | 1200.00 | 1800.00 | 42975.01 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| LuckyDaveB | Fold | ||||
| bigroppa | Fold | ||||
| BigHawk89 | Fold | ||||
| limmy01 | Raise | 4200.00 | 6000.00 | 19380.00 | |
| mickee | Call | 3600.00 | 9600.00 | 39375.01 | |
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| limmy01 | Check | ||||
| mickee | Bet | 7200.00 | 16800.00 | 32175.01 | |
| limmy01 | All-in | 19380.00 | 36180.00 | 0.00 | |
| mickee | Call | 12180.00 | 48360.00 | 19995.01 | |
| limmy01 | Show |
| |||
| mickee | Show |
| |||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| mickee | Win | Flush to the Ace | 48360.00 | 68355 | |
Comments
I'd also cbet the flop myself, good chance to just take it down there and then which is very good for us. As played, it's shove or fold now and I think we should probably fold cos I doubt we have any FE facing that bet.
Fold flop.
Just a simple question which might make me sound stupid but here goes. When working out how many big blinds you have left why do you not take the small blind into account? As when i was playing last night i added both the small and big and worked it out that way.... i take it i did this wrong but what is the reasoning to this?
Hope that makes sense
cheers both
Just posted and deleted because I had read stacks the wrong way round.
At 20BBs you still have room to raise/fold - but as others have said minraise to preserve your stack.
Post flop you need to continuation bet or give up completely.
Really don't understand the check/raise all-in - your opponent has shown (or represented) strength twice now and would probably be priced in to call with any 2 overcards, never mind the draw to the nut flush. The bluff is very rarely going to get through.
Most tournament theory is spoken about in terms of BBs in your (and opponents) stack as this decides how big to make a bet - who is likely to call - whether you can raise/fold or may as well shove etc.
back to the books this week
Open raising is good and a continuation bet probably gets through most of the time without knowing opponents cards.
I am more worried about you just saying you folded KK pre? In an MTT where the rewards are heavily geared towards the top few spots you should be looking to accumulate chips. Don't be scared of the bubble!
pre i'm affraid .... Think as it was my second time in a tourny this size 448players when i normally go in the deep stacks with 80 odd i just wanted to make the bubble and have lost a few chips with top cards before even though the % is with ks .... I just went mega mega super tight and sat tight till the bubble was over ... shall i kick my own bum or will one of you kick it for me .......
deserved I'm afraid...
*sigh* about folding the KK pre-flop... We can't be doing that profitably in MTT's. We need to be super-deep to even consider it.
I can understand wanting to make it to the money if it's significant to you. However, there is no question that attitudes like that will cost us money in the long run. So, unless you think you're never going to play another tournament like this, you can't be thinking about sneaking into the money.
Obviously, if we're making unprofitable decisions, we're going to make it less likely that we will be able to play these bigger buy-in games in future.
fold flop
don't fold when you have KK
On this hand, I definitely agree that we should be raising a lot smaller pre-flop. A min-raise is fine. (We can definitely just fold. We're not super-shallow and playing the hand out of position is going to be tricky. Raise if you think the villain plays face-up pre and post-flop. Fold if he doesn't)
I equally agree that we should be c-betting the flop. It's so dry and low that our c-bet is going to get through a huge amount of the time. We can even make our c-bet quite small because it's so tough for our opponent to hit a board like this. As it happens, this would have been one occasion when the villain didn't fold but we don't know that before we act.
We need to look at your decision to check-raise.
Firstly, as the hand played, we need to reassess our intention to raise after our opponent has bet so big. As has been said, we don't really have any fold equity when the villain has bet so big relative to our stack. We have no equity when we're called, so this is just a really bad spot to put our chips in.
The whole rationale of the check-raise is questionable, though.
i) We have the betting lead, so we can't necessarily expect our opponent to bet when we check, unless he has something.
ii) We know a bog-standard c-bet is going to take the pot down a large proportion of the time, anyway.
iii) We are depending on our opponent to bet an amount that we can comfortably come over the top of. In this case, that didn't happen.
iv) When we check-raise, we risk a far greater proportion of our stack than we would with a c-bet, with a hand that has little equity.
So when we check this flop, we give up our opportunity to take down the pot in the easiest manner with a c-bet. We also give ourselves the chance of going broke in a hand that we needn't go broke in. We can comfortably bet-fold this flop, but once we've check-raised that's it, we've got our stack in.
Check-raising isn't just a random play that you make because you haven't done it in a while. You need to explain to yourself why it's better to check in any given situation, than it is to bet. You need to think about which hands you're representing when you check-raise: Which value hands would you play this way or be perceived to play this way?