away players hands should be automatically mucked

markisking

how can you win chips if your not at the table ist a joke....
example away player in big blind and wins when all in or when some players dont know any better....
a few other sites iv played on automatically muck hands if your not at the table.....
i have watched wsop,wpt,ept for the last 8 years and what would happen if the great phil hellmuth was deep in a tornament losing chips to a player who was all in and away from the table..... 

vaigret

Hi markisking

There have been various threads on this subject, including one from me earlier which brought some abuse from other players so it will come to you as well. 

With the connection problems as well recently it is very unfair to people who have this problem for their hands to be automatically mucked. However there are a few people on this site who use the away button tactically and this really gets to me. Other players will say this doesn't happen !! It does and it happened again last night. Player with big stack suddenly got hit a couple of times, didn't like it and surprise surprise away he went. Luckily winner and myself pushed him down to third place cash but I felt really sorry for player who bubbled. 

Some will still say it doesn't happen like this and good luck to the away's that cash, I can assure them it does and what a way to win money off your fellow players.

MereNovice

I really don't understand this post at all.

Any player that is shown as "away" will automatically be folded in the bb if anyone makes even a minimum raise or bet.
The only time that he will "play" a hand is if no-one raises or if he is in the blinds without a big enough stack to pay the blinds.

As for people sitting out "tactically" it really is irrelevant. If I choose to sit and pass every hand at a table, I am perfectly entitled to do so and there are several instances where this may be good practice. This is no different to "sitting out" apart from the fact that you might discover you have aces (or another strong hand) and want to play them.

There is absolutely no obligation for any player to play any hand at any stage of any tournament.

Tikay10

I am afraid MereNovice is 100% correct.

Players, once they have paid their Entry fee, can Sit-Out if they so choose.

I can't actually see why this is a problem, personally. It's free chips for the rest of us, we can nick his Blinds every hand, & if he sneaks back in & catches us nicking, well, what goes round comes round. 

You mention what Hellmuth's view would be. Well I know what his view would be - he'd accept it, as it's part of the Rules in WSOP, the EPT, the WPT, the GUKPT, in fact, every Tournament ever. An Away players chips remain on the Table, "& in play" until they are all gone. 

It's a fundamental Rule of Poker. People pay their Entry Fee, & can then sit out if they want, it's their pefect right.

Sorry about that, "MarkisKing", but that's not my opinion - it's the Rules of Poker.

JingleMa

Umm... exactly what Novice and Tk said, this thread makes no sense.

Is markisking playing on sites that don't follow the rules?

And yes, there is nothing Hellmuth could (or would) want to do about it.

hogan2089

The only annoying thing from my aspect is when you have a table which is say 4 aways and 2 of u playing , you might  be sharing the aways money between you, but youre getting no action.......stealing blinds is no compensation for not being able to bet decent hands, and puts you in a way at a disadvantage against tables where they are able to play.

J-Hartigan

Tikay/Vince - I think you're missing markisking's point...

If you're not at the table, you should NOT be able to win a pot.  THAT is one of the Rules of Poker.

On Sky Poker, it's possible for an "Away" to win a hand if he's in the big blind, there's no pre-flop raise and the action is then checked down to the river.

It doesn't happen that often.  But it DOES happen.  And the fact that it CAN happen is a mistake IMO.

markisking is right when he suggests that an "Away" player's cards should to automatically mucked - just as they would be at a live table.  The "Away" player should NEVER be given the option to check in the big blind and potentially win the pot!

Kaidus

Seconding what Mr Hartigan has said, I think the OP is annoyed that here, "away" players can win hands when they are all in on the BB and their hands are automatically turned face up and played even though they are not there, whereas on a site promoted by Mr Negreanu, they are automatically folded and eliminated.

As for people who check down when a BB is away and in the hand, plz plz plz plz plz bet on the river if you are first to act in a SB/BB battle, or last to act.

MAXALLY

And a perfect example on this is from last night's TKO tourney. I am small blind, BB is 'away'. If i fold, i have less then half a small blind left so i need to call with any two cards really v the BB who I think had about 25 more than me but all in. Folded around, so call with as it happens AQ. The away player has 5/3 o/s and hits a 5 on the river. So he stays in, i go out. Incidentley, that was 103rd place!!!!. So as MR Hartigan points out very well above, IF THAT PLAYER COULD NOT WIN A POT i would of no doubt gone on to win the thing! 

markisking

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked:

Tikay/Vince - I think you're missing markisking's point... If you're not at the table, you should NOT be able to win a pot.   THAT is one of the Rules of Poker. On Sky Poker, it's possible for an "Away" to win a hand if he's in the big blind, there's no pre-flop raise and the action is then checked down to the river. It doesn't happen that often.  But it DOES happen.  And the fact that it CAN happen is a mistake IMO. markisking is right when he suggests that an "Away" player's cards should to automatically mucked - just as they would be at a live table.  The "Away" player should NEVER be given the option to check in the big blind and potentially win the pot!
Posted by J-Hartigan

thank you j-hartigan for the kind reply.
i do play on another site and if away or siting out your hand is mucked but still prefer playing on sky tho

BigBluster

I've known away players make the money in tournaments as others with smaller stacks have been forced to move in. That can't be right - etiquette alone should mean players give other stacks a walk to keep them in while the away gets busted.

vaigret

Sorry my fault again confusing markisking's very good point with my bug bear of players cashing in tournaments by using away.

I am obviously wrong in that.
Nobody will ever convince me tho that it is the right way to play ethically and I agree entirely with bigbluster. Hogan also has a valid point.

Something wrong in a game when somebody not on the field of play for over an hour can win money out of it.



  

loonytoons

If an away player ever made the money ahead of me id give up lol, yeh they may not go out first but to win the money is bad play from others

markisking

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked:

I am afraid MereNovice is 100% correct. Players, once they have paid their Entry fee, can Sit-Out if they so choose. I can't actually see why this is a problem, personally. It's free chips for the rest of us, we can nick his Blinds every hand, & if he sneaks back in & catches us nicking, well, what goes round comes round.  You mention what Hellmuth's view would be. Well I know what his view would be - he'd accept it, as it's part of the Rules in WSOP, the EPT, the WPT, the GUKPT, in fact, every Tournament ever. An Away players chips remain on the Table, "& in play" until they are all gone.  It's a fundamental Rule of Poker. People pay their Entry Fee, & can then sit out if they want, it's their pefect right. Sorry about that, "MarkisKing", but that's not my opinion - it's the Rules of Poker.
Posted by Tikay10

erm tikay where did i say that players cant or should not sit-out or about about away players chips not remaining on the table.you cant win chips if away from the table in live play that is a fact.now i know that away players chips remain on the table thats the basics of poker.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked:

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked : erm tikay where did i say that players cant or should not sit-out or about about away players chips not remaining on the table.you cant win chips if away from the table in live play that is a fact.now i know that away players chips remain on the table thats the basics of poker.
Posted by markisking

You are absolutely correct Mark - I thought you were asking something else entirely.

My apologies.

markisking

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked:

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked : You are absolutely correct Mark - I thought you were asking something else entirely. My apologies.
Posted by Tikay10

thank you tikay for the apologie and you are still my fav on the sky poker team

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked:

I really don't understand this post at all. Any player that is shown as "away" will automatically be folded in the bb if anyone makes even a minimum raise or bet. The only time that he will "play" a hand is if no-one raises or if he is in the blinds without a big enough stack to pay the blinds. As for people sitting out "tactically" it really is irrelevant. If I choose to sit and pass every hand at a table, I am perfectly entitled to do so and there are several instances where this may be good practice. This is no different to "sitting out" apart from the fact that you might discover you have aces (or another strong hand) and want to play them. There is absolutely no obligation for any player to play any hand at any stage of any tournament.
Posted by MereNovice

i totally agree,some players get a bad beat and walk away from the table (in live poker also) and as stated if he is in bb you only have to raise and he auto folds,he only gets to see showdown when he is all in(when he usually wins lol)
as for "the great phil hellmuth" he often sits out the first couple of levels in live tournies

dave

vaigret

Hi Loonytoons

Sorry to see you are giving up poker mate.

Many times I , yes me beleive it or not, and aways have been left in tournaments when you long gone.

As I am sure you agree not all people who go out before aways are bad players.

LOL

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: away players hands should be automatically mucked:

Tikay/Vince - I think you're missing markisking's point... If you're not at the table, you should NOT be able to win a pot.   THAT is one of the Rules of Poker. On Sky Poker, it's possible for an "Away" to win a hand if he's in the big blind, there's no pre-flop raise and the action is then checked down to the river. It doesn't happen that often.  But it DOES happen.  And the fact that it CAN happen is a mistake IMO. markisking is right when he suggests that an "Away" player's cards should to automatically mucked - just as they would be at a live table.  The "Away" player should NEVER be given the option to check in the big blind and potentially win the pot!
Posted by J-Hartigan

now this is why sky forum and skypoker is tops ,

two presenters giving two different opinions,

in public forum well-done guys .

ps. but do find it annoying players don't stand down ,

after they leave the table in cash games .

your Irish little moaning m8 rover