Do you raise flop to get in or not when you raise flop and you certain vill has enough bluffs in range to now flat if vill is raising value hands then what are they weigh up % or value and bluff hands and maybe you should fold flop:) fwiw don't raise flop just flat Posted by rancid
really?
very likely to be ahead at this stage, but with a vulnerable hand. isn't it better to try to take it down than letting everything else get there?
as played.. raise/raise/raise otf gogogo, this is basically the flop you wanted, get it in vs KK and hold since villain seems happy to shovel the monies in.
pre is a fold ainec, hand has poor playability. as played.. raise/raise/raise otf gogogo, this is basically the flop you wanted, get it in vs KK and hold since villain seems happy to shovel the monies in. Posted by NColley
You may find this hard to believe but I don't ordinarily call UTG raises with 25s. It was just a fun game.
As I said; on the flop I very much doubt the villain plays an overpair like this. It's not impossible, but I think a bigger portion of his range is air. 4-betting the flop just folds all of that air out.
Do you raise flop to get in or not when you raise flop and you certain vill has enough bluffs in range to now flat if vill is raising value hands then what are they weigh up % or value and bluff hands and maybe you should fold flop:) fwiw don't raise flop just flat Posted by rancid
I definitely don't agree with this. As I said earlier, raising on this flop I think will be given credit for a lot of air.
I gather that the suggestion of folding the flop was a joke, though.
In Response to Re: NL20, Two-Pair: 4-Bet Or Flat Flop? : You may find this hard to believe but I don't ordinarily call UTG raises with 25s. It was just a fun game. As I said; on the flop I very much doubt the villain plays an overpair like this. It's not impossible, but I think a bigger portion of his range is air. 4-betting the flop just folds all of that air out. Posted by BorinLoner
and you don't think your initial raise 4way is going to fold a high % of his air out?
In Response to Re: NL20, Two-Pair: 4-Bet Or Flat Flop? : and you don't think your initial raise 4way is going to fold a high % of his air out? Posted by NColley
No. I raise to gain value from his overpairs and, since I'll be given credit for air a lot myself, I know the villain won't necessarily just fold but may re-bluff me. His 3-bet is more likely, in my opinion both at the time and now, to be a bluff than a value hand.
In Response to Re: NL20, Two-Pair: 4-Bet Or Flat Flop? : really? very likely to be ahead at this stage, but with a vulnerable hand. isn't it better to try to take it down than letting everything else get there? Posted by GELDY
what else you raising on this flop what are they getting there with, only vulernable to the obvious counterfiet and str - if you can't play post and not fold then ok w/e gl sir may aswell send villian a postcard with your hand on it when you raise flop ok raise flop if villian can never fold one pr hands keep villian in, tell him the bad news later
idk what bluffs BL raises on this flop to make villian think he can be bluffing but does BL really think it's a good flop to bluff on - terrible flop to bluff on so why would villian think your bluffing unless villian can't fodl one pr hands or thinks you think it's a good flop to bluff on ! poker is funny.
If villian think bl is bluffing sometimes on this flop then why is villian not flatting. So it's very possible that villian has bluffed you off the best hand when they raise you on the flop lol
Maybe just look at what your flatting btn with and then raising these kinda flops with - where's the merge in your range ?
Reading through all of BL's comments I just don't see how BL folds.
You're just going to have to accept what I'm telling you when I say my raise is going to look like air a lot on this flop, the way the game has been playing.
If you can't accept the reads I'm giving you, then you're not adding anything to the discussion. You're talking about a different hand where I wouldn't be given credit for bluffing air on this board.
In this game, I've already 5-bet bluffed pre-flop and shown down junk. As I said, it was a fun game.
If this was a standard NL10 spot and I wasn't giving any reads, then your comments would make sense. As it isn't readless, just telling me that I'm wrong and won't be given credit for any bluffs on this flop isn't accurate.
You're just going to have to accept what I'm telling you when I say my raise is going to look like air a lot on this flop, the way the game has been playing. If you can't accept the reads I'm giving you, then you're not adding anything to the discussion. You're talking about a different hand where I wouldn't be given credit for bluffing air on this board. In this game, I've already 5-bet bluffed pre-flop and shown down junk. As I said, it was a fun game. If this was a standard NL10 spot and I wasn't giving any reads, then your comments would make sense. As it isn't readless, just telling me that I'm wrong and won't be given credit for any bluffs on this flop isn't accurate. Posted by BorinLoner
Well this is what I was getting at but not everything in my head comes out right
Essentially if your going to be given credit for having air when you raise then why would villian then re pop you. Makes no sense right unless he got air. I would guess that your raising flop polarised so this puts villian bluff catchers in a very good spot to just flat when you raise. Would villian think you raising with 10's - I mean what hand do you flat btn and then raise flop with. So why would villian re pop w/JJ for example.
You fold because you believe what, that villian has a pocket pr - as above can't see villian haviing that if you raise flop with air.
So why fold ? u put vill on just the str to fold surely like what do you think about vills turn check
Well, yeah, that's the question: Can I call the river? At the time I sigh-folded. Three weeks later, I still think there are arguments for the call.
I've come to the conclusion that actually shoving the river would have been better. The villain's disciplined enough to fold an Ace. It's just a question of whether I do a good enough job of repping the house.
Comments
when you raise flop and you certain vill has enough bluffs in range to now flat
if vill is raising value hands then what are they
weigh up % or value and bluff hands and maybe you should fold flop:)
fwiw don't raise flop just flat
As I said; on the flop I very much doubt the villain plays an overpair like this. It's not impossible, but I think a bigger portion of his range is air. 4-betting the flop just folds all of that air out.
I gather that the suggestion of folding the flop was a joke, though.
what else you raising on this flop
what are they getting there with, only vulernable to the obvious counterfiet and str - if you can't play post and not fold then ok w/e gl sir
may aswell send villian a postcard with your hand on it when you raise flop
ok raise flop if villian can never fold one pr hands
keep villian in, tell him the bad news later
idk what bluffs BL raises on this flop to make villian think he can be bluffing but does BL really think it's a good flop to bluff on - terrible flop to bluff on so why would villian think your bluffing unless villian can't fodl one pr hands or thinks you think it's a good flop to bluff on ! poker is funny.
If villian think bl is bluffing sometimes on this flop then why is villian not flatting. So it's very possible that villian has bluffed you off the best hand when they raise you on the flop lol
Maybe just look at what your flatting btn with and then raising these kinda flops with - where's the merge in your range ?
Reading through all of BL's comments I just don't see how BL folds.
If you can't accept the reads I'm giving you, then you're not adding anything to the discussion. You're talking about a different hand where I wouldn't be given credit for bluffing air on this board.
In this game, I've already 5-bet bluffed pre-flop and shown down junk. As I said, it was a fun game.
If this was a standard NL10 spot and I wasn't giving any reads, then your comments would make sense. As it isn't readless, just telling me that I'm wrong and won't be given credit for any bluffs on this flop isn't accurate.
Essentially if your going to be given credit for having air when you raise then why would villian then re pop you. Makes no sense right unless he got air. I would guess that your raising flop polarised so this puts villian bluff catchers in a very good spot to just flat when you raise. Would villian think you raising with 10's - I mean what hand do you flat btn and then raise flop with. So why would villian re pop w/JJ for example.
You fold because you believe what, that villian has a pocket pr - as above can't see villian haviing that if you raise flop with air.
So why fold ? u put vill on just the str to fold surely
like what do you think about vills turn check
I've come to the conclusion that actually shoving the river would have been better. The villain's disciplined enough to fold an Ace. It's just a question of whether I do a good enough job of repping the house.