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Good Spot, or Find A Better One...?

SlipwaterSlipwater Member Posts: 3,611
edited November 2013 in The Poker Clinic
All right, I know this is a little late to the party - and I have never posted for advice before - but I fancied a few opinions on this hand I played in the Sunday side event at Dusk til Dawn, as it has me torn.

It's the final table and seven players are left. I am very comfortably 3rd in chips, and feel very good about the takedown. I have about 220k and the blinds are 4k/8k. I have QQ and raise under the gun to 18k. Next guy shoves all in for about 95k. Fold. Fold. Fold. Fold. Then the big blind (who is second in chips and therefore has me covered, shoves his stack). Now, I am not worried at all about the 95k - I was always going to call him - but I know the BB must have something decent to isolate him in that way. Of course, I am only behind against KK or AA at that stage, but is it correct to go to war at that stage against two hands?

If I call and win I am massive chip leader. If I call and lose to the big stack, I'm out in 6th place.

So: call or a fold? It has been bugging me for a week now!
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Comments

  • a00rocka00rock Member Posts: 832
    edited November 2013
    As you say Brian you are only behind to AA and KK and are racing against AK but what else could the BB have to shove with JJ 1010 AQs AJs all possible ranges and would he really shove with AA or KK with potential action behind him? I would call it off here but I am the man who would shove AA in the main event 1st hand to a previous all in!

    gl mate Ray
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2013
    Call
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  • LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,494
    edited November 2013
    It's a tough one i'd prob fold, but we are probably good enough of the time.

    I would prob pick a better spot.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited November 2013
    Give him a range and make your decision.

    6 combos of AA.
    6 combos of KK
    6 combos of JJ
    16 combos of AK

    Readless those hands are all very likely. We fold if those are the only hands in his range.

    16 combos of AQ
    6 combos of TT
    6 combos of 99
    etc...

    If you throw these hands in there, or more, then it becomes a call.


    Presumably you knew something about the villain. Perhaps not a lot, but you could perhaps gauge how tight he is.
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  • grantorinograntorino Member Posts: 4,710
    edited November 2013
    Reads vital, on both villains,as is your image

    In a vacuum I call, I don't get why people think he has a super tight isolating range, but maybe it's right for bad live players.bb also never flatting unless he is really bad or thinks you are really bad
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater Member Posts: 3,611
    edited November 2013

    Thanks for the words, folks.

    BL - I didn't know too much about him, as I had only seen him get to showdown with one or two hands, which didn't tell me much. I just didn't understand the shove, unless it was a big hand. It wasn't a bounty hunter, so he had to have at least a semi-decent hand.

    Having said that, I called after some deliberation. He turned over AK, while the short stack had KJ. It was probably the best I could have hoped for as they killed their king outs. Of course, the ace came on the turn and I was out in 6th place. A good cash, but I do sometimes wonder if I should have folded and waited for a better spot. Against two players, I am rarely good...

    ...I think!

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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited November 2013
    It's a tough one but I think we have to call. JJ would probably be a fold here.  There are quite a lot of variables here tho that I would think about when considering my decision - such as how big of an advantage you believe you have at the table, how well you believe you can play a 25bb stack. Also to consider is if you do win the hand and become chip leader how confident you are in using a big chip stack to your advantage. You haven't mentioned the size of the other shorties at the table - you said "comfortably in 3rd" so to me that suggests the short stacks are all pretty short. So there may be value in trying to ladder.


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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited November 2013
    This has to be a call unless we have very specific reads saying otherwise.
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  • Phantom66Phantom66 Member Posts: 5,542
    edited November 2013
    It would be a call for me.

    Open shover with <12BB has a very wide range - pair - any ace - any 2 high cards

    Reshover knows this and will want to get it in HU with a slightly narrower range imo - maybe exclude raggy A's. low pairs and any 2face cards but I think you can definitely go further than Borin's minimum range for calling.

    In 3rd and feeling good need to be going for the win.

    Long term has to be the profitable play.

    I would only consider a fold if laddering is really meaningful e.g. Sat'ed into a large event.

    There will be opportunities to accumulate chips with less risk to your tournament, but it is hard to see how you will find a better spot for taking a player out and becoming chip leader.
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited November 2013
    call with queens, fold jacks. 

    BL i think ur AQ combos would be wrong as we block 2 queens. 

    i still call though. 
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