Any shout for calling this?

LARSON7

It looks like an easy fold, that he has some ax hand probably ace 10??. Now i'm wondering if it was some random bluff, no real reads on opponent hadn't been at the table for long.

Probably should have 3 bet it pre as well. The line doesn't make sense he shouldn't really have a 6 here, or an ace, ace's? Tho it definatly doesn't look like aces either.

He seemd like a really upfront sort of player, his bet wreaks of a straight, but it's hard to see his hand holding, how he could get to the river.

andyzicanSmall blind £0.05£0.05£5.23lordgee12Big blind £0.10£0.15£11.38 Your hole cards1010   xRaise £0.20£0.35£6.90damono1Fold    LARSON7Call £0.20£0.55£11.59supercrazyFold    andyzicanFold    lordgee12Call £0.10£0.65£11.28Flop  4210   lordgee12Check    xBet £0.33£0.98£6.57LARSON7Call £0.33£1.31£11.26lordgee12Call £0.33£1.64£10.95Turn  3   lordgee12Check    xBet £0.50£2.14£6.07LARSON7Raise £2.48£4.62£8.78lordgee12Fold    xCall £1.98£6.60£4.09River  5   xAll-in £4.09£10.69£0.00LARSON7Fold    xMuck    xWin £6.10 £6.10xReturn £4.09

gazza127

Eurgh.  What a horrid river.

I definitely 3 bet pre here v most opponents.  Then the hand plays out slightly different.

Its hard to see what he'd be jamming that we beat.  Looks like a raggy ace.  Probably is a raggy ace.  He cant give you credit for a 6 the way youve played it so the ace is kinda the nuts here.

Hmmmm... think folding is best here.

TommyD

It feels really tough for him to have an ace or a six for me unless he has two of them.  However also feels like we're beat a decent amount of the time.  I think we only have to be right a little worse than 1 in 3 times to be profitable here, is he shoving with worse value/bluffs enough?  I would say so.  Hate folding sets, I call

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Any shout for calling this?:

It feels really tough for him to have an ace or a six for me unless he has two of them.  However also feels like we're beat a decent amount of the time.  I think we only have to be right a little worse than 1 in 3 times to be profitable here, is he shoving with worse value/bluffs enough?  I would say so.  Hate folding sets, I call
Posted by TommyD

At these levels how many people are capable of bluffing this spot, even value hands shut down right? 

I lean to a fold, i hate making it but at nl10 i just dont think enough players are capable of bluffing here. 

Lambert180

Thing is though, as Tommy says, it's really hard for him to have 6x/Ax after calling your big turn raise unless it's AA. Think he's folding A2-A4, and it's pretty hard for him to have AT cos obv we know where 3 of the tens are. Guess he could play A5 like this and already have the straight before the river...

Horrible, just so few hands that beat us so we probably should call, but we probably just get shown an insane amount of straights.

F_Ivanovic

Whilst it seems hard for villain to have 6x or Ax, it's also hard to imagine what bluffs/worse value hands he could show up with. Given our read is that he seems like an upfront sort of player I think I lean towards a fold. Can't be too bad to bluff catch here though. I guess he might be playing a weird set like this or just have JJ-KK and not wanting to c/c such a horrible board just decides to shove. Would be bad but I've seen players at this level make plays like that. So yeah thinking about it more I think this might just be a call.

rancid

snap

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Any shout for calling this?:

snap
Posted by rancid

Really? So at 10NL you will happily snap river when you can no longer improve with a straight OTB. But at 20NL you will fold turn with 10 outs if behind & getting almost correct pot odds. Does. not. compute.

TommyD

Let's not forget how good that river may look as a bluff card for people thinking on a certain level.  Maybe it's a desperation play with 77, 88 etc etc.

I'm such a station, all of my advice in every clinic hand is 'Call' until told otherwise....

BTW I am never auto snapping any donk shove on the river without the topest top of my range.  The play is so out of synch that I would always take a moment to consider the hand and how it played out.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Any shout for calling this?:

In Response to Re: Any shout for calling this? : Really? So at 10NL you will happily snap river when you can no longer improve with a straight OTB. But at 20NL you will fold turn with 10 outs if behind & getting almost correct pot odds. Does. not. compute.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Just realised that sounded a tad harsh! lol. Don't mean to be picking on you rancid, honest :P

@ Tommy: Calling stations trump over folding stations hehe. But yeah I've always been somewhat of a calling station too. Maybe less these days when I'm still playing relatively low levels. But the higher you play, the more you should usually call when a line doesn't make much sense and yet you're getting really good pot odds!

LARSON7

Worst river ever!

I don't think this player is ever bluffing here, tho it makes no sense for him to have an ace or a 6 here, aces 66s?

6s doesnt seem likely, neither does aces, but some opponents will min raise aces.

Could be totally wrong, but i expcect he has Ace 10 here, or some a x hand, has made a bad call on the turn and got there.

It doesn't make sense, but some players will call with any 2, even when there is no reason/ justification for them to call.

gazza127

TBH 66 makes most sense given the action.  He's quite happy to bet the flop with 66.  The turn brings the open ender but now you've called flop he's worried that he's behind and wants to see a cheap river.  He decides to call the raise playing his draw and binks the perfect card on the river.


EDIT - mis read hand.  he didnt have open ender.  66 makes no sense. Eurgh.


However 66 is such a small portion of his range.  Raggy aces make up a whole lot more of his range here. A2/A3/A4/A10 are all serious possibilities.

If he hadnt stepped out of line then one would say its a fold, however if he knows you give him credit when he bets then its the perfect river for him to bluff.

Having said that I cant see many hands at all villain has that bets the flop... then slows the turn (in terms of bet size) and calls a raise that you beat by the river.  He surely doesnt slow down the turn with a set or overpair.  He shouldnt be bet/calling the turn with PPs 99-

To me at least he simply has to have you beat.

rancid

In Response to Re: Any shout for calling this?:

In Response to Re: Any shout for calling this? : Just realised that sounded a tad harsh! lol. Don't mean to be picking on you rancid, honest :P @ Tommy: Calling stations trump over folding stations hehe. But yeah I've always been somewhat of a calling station too. Maybe less these days when I'm still playing relatively low levels. But the higher you play, the more you should usually call when a line doesn't make much sense and yet you're getting really good pot odds!
Posted by F_Ivanovic

no worries

simonnatur

I get tired of scratching my head and wondering how players at micros got to the river and stumbled into backdoor nuts - would be slightly richer if i just folded all my hands that had turned into bluff catchers otr.