is AQs SB ok to be played like this?

craigcu12

i had a feeling the villain liked getting heads since he had made a few bad calls already and had just did a reraise OTB with A6s when it had already been raised.

then if that wasn't enough i was thinking he could well try stealing the pot if the board show much sign of a decent hand as it was close to the bubble.

jawzindawz	Sit out
craigcu12	Small blind		200.00	200.00	11773.36
bigsid	Big blind		400.00	600.00	7486.60
	Your hole cards	Q A
shadowPico	Fold
haza447	Fold
Todd15	Raise		800.88	1400.88	26840.00
craigcu12	All-in		11773.36	13174.24	0.00

also with this one should I just give up on the turn

haza447	Small blind		300.00	300.00	15945.00
x	Big blind		600.00	900.00	26240.00
	Your hole cards	3 3
jawzindawz	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		1200.00	2100.00	11974.24
bigsid	Fold
shadowPico	Fold
haza447	Call		900.00	3000.00	15045.00
x	Call		600.00	3600.00	25640.00
Flop
		9 Q 5
haza447	Check
x	Check
craigcu12	Bet		1200.00	4800.00	10774.24
haza447	Fold
x	Call		1200.00	6000.00	24440.00
Turn
		6
x	Check
craigcu12

hhyftrftdr

It is a pretty big shove, but if your reads are that he can call you with worse...

Lambert180

Yeah as Harry said, 30xBB is a VERY big stack to shove, but I know the kinda player you mean and if you're sure they call with trash and don't mind taking a high variance route (cos you're only like 60% favourite against say 89o) then I think it's fine.

I've actually just made a 3bet shove myself about 10 mins ago in an £11 BH with a bigger stack than I normally would cos I had one of them guys. I had AT about about 22xBB... he had 67o and snapped me off lol.

Siiiiigh, literally as I write this,  just shipped JJ into QJ and the door card meant I was drawing to 1 out

hhyftrftdr

With that 2nd hand, unless I'm on a very passive table, I might just bin 33 pre in that position.

We only have 20bb behind. If the blinds/button are likely to call, there are going to be no flops we like without hitting a set. We just have nowhere to go with the hand, if we don't flop it we basically can't improve, and we don't have a stack size to be playing streets/getting too tricky. We just have to hope to get to showdown and try and scoop the pot with what could well end up being 6th pair.

I'd rather raise a 78s type hand here than a small PP. Might seem a bit nitty to open fold 33 but it's a hand that doesn't play too well in these circumstances.

Edit- I think the flop texture and the subsequent c/bet indicate how difficult 33 is to play with around 20bb and in early position.

The_Don90

AQ i think the shove is just too large. i'd personally 3b to like 2.1k and stack to a jam. 

second hand, i guess it depends on reads, its a pretty dry flp so chances are your getting stationed. as a result i give up v most villains

craigcu12

with pairs at this stage of the MTT what would you say is the smallest one worth playing UTG?

In a way I don't see much point in why I did the raise preflop because I was going to still fold if I got reraised the villain in the BB was the same loose villain as hand 1 more often than not would call the flop so I become stuck.

Lambert180

Forgot to mention the 2nd hand. I agree with Harry that most of the time we can just open fold this in this specific situation. It plays so poorly postflop with these stack sizes and isn't strong enough to do anything other than fold to a 3bet, so we're basically just praying to take down the blinds or flop a set. The former is a possible reason to raise virtually ATC on the right table... the latter isn't a great reason to open 33.

The_Don90

fwiw i never ever open fold the 3's. unopened pre.

we'll take down alot pre, valuble blinds, 1 caller we can cbet and take down even more a decent amount of the time on the flop. other times we'll flop a set and shout for the moutains.

on other occassions yes we will lose 3k or so, but meh watever. 

yes we fold to a 3b but thats irelevant. 

open folding is just far too tight, 

fwiw i missed tht we got 2 callers pre, i wudnt cbet tht flop multiway

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: is AQs SB ok to be played like this?:

fwiw i never ever open fold the 3's. unopened pre. we'll take down alot pre, valuble blinds, 1 caller we can cbet and take down even more a decent amount of the time on the flop. other times we'll flop a set and shout for the moutains. on other occassions yes we will lose 3k or so, but meh watever.  yes we fold to a 3b but thats irelevant.  open folding is just far too tight,  fwiw i missed tht we got 2 callers pre, i wudnt cbet tht flop multiway
Posted by The_Don90

This is why open folding 33 in early position on certain tables, although nitty, might be the correct move.

Lambert180

There has to be a stack size where we open fold 33 imo.

Say we have 14xBB, it's way too big to open shove on Sky especially from EP, we pretty much can't raise/call unless we just wanna gamble and as I said above, there are some tables where we can raise/fold pretty much ATC with 14xBB but if that's the case, I'd rather be raise folding stuff like 78 so that when we get peeled we actually have half a hope of having some equity and not just facing 3 overcards virtually 100% of the time.

I think refusing to open fold some small PPs in some situations is a mistake.

craigcu12

I understand your point about the risk with these hands late in MTT.

when UTG if my stack is too big to open jam is the hand range best to be just 1010+ and AKo AQo AJs

Lambert180

In short Craig, no. Try not to look for set guidelines and think 'I'll always do X' cos it just doesn't work like that, it always depends.

I assume you mean when your stack is too big to open jam but too small to play some pots? For instance, if we have 25xBB then there's no reason at all we can't actually play some poker. Generally our range for opening UTG should always be pretty tight anyway unless we're really deep so have a lot more room to make moves.

F_Ivanovic

Generally we want to be binning small pairs in early position but that being said there are a lot of tables that play very nitty and so opening 33 is going to be profitable. If you continue opening all your small pairs pre EP tho good players will take advantage - they'll notice how wide you are raising from EP and will use it to their advantage.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: is AQs SB ok to be played like this?:

In Response to Re: is AQs SB ok to be played like this? : This is why open folding 33 in early position on certain tables, although nitty, might be the correct move.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Fwiw i cbet some flops multi way just not that one

In Response to Re: is AQs SB ok to be played like this?:

Generally we want to be binning small pairs in early position but that being said there are a lot of tables that play very nitty and so opening 33 is going to be profitable. If you continue opening all your small pairs pre EP tho good players will take advantage - they'll notice how wide you are raising from EP and will use it to their advantage.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

In a standard low stakes sky mtt i don't think theres enough players who will expolit us. Worst case senario we get peeled by the button, standard senario it folds round, maybe the bb peels we take down on most flops. When both blinds peel it is abit annoying but again we can take down on some flops, others we give up and lose 2bb. 

However that 2bb is a risk im willing to take to increase my stack size. If Ante's where in play I'd be much more considering of open shoving even just because of the extra dead money, but thats a different arguement. 

We aint even in that early a position baring in mind its 6 max i know so we're UTG+1 but we're also the HJ. On any full ring table and it folds to us in the HJ we would be snap opening this. Proabably with a fist bump. 

When we're playing mtts how much is a min cash worth, probably not alot. So I'd be happy to give up my min cash chance to increase my stack here, so that when we do manage to double we'd be doubling 15/16/17BB instead of 14BB.