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KK get check raised by limper OTF

craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
edited November 2013 in The Poker Clinic
when someone decides to open limp preflop normally i'm thinking he will be a weak player.
if he didn't open bet preflop I just don't see him attempting to semi bluff so ruled out draws.
in all honesty the only hand that I could see myself ahead of was AJ
canifold Small blind  15.00 15.00 1715.00
foster10 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2315.00
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
mucka44420 Fold     
xCall  30.00 75.00 1910.00
craigcu12 Raise  150.00 225.00 1850.00
canifold Fold     
foster10 Fold     
xCall  120.00 345.00 1790.00
Flop
   
  • J
  • 4
  • 10
     
xCheck     
craigcu12 Bet  345.00 690.00 1505.00
xRaise
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Comments

  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited November 2013
    Good luck getting me off that hand.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2013
    Be nice to actually see what he raised to but w/e I'm just getting it in readless.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited November 2013
    sorry it was very early in the sat so I didn't know much about him apart from he was a limper
    canifold Small blind  15.00 15.00 1715.00
    foster10 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2315.00
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		     
    mucka44420 Fold     
    ADD Call  30.00 75.00 1910.00
    craigcu12 Raise  150.00 225.00 1850.00
    canifold Fold     
    foster10 Fold     
    ADD Call  120.00 345.00 1790.00
    Flop
       
    • J
    • 4
    • 10
    		     
    ADD Check     
    craigcu12 Bet  345.00 690.00 1505.00
    ADD Raise  690.00 1380.00 1100.00
    craigcu12
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited November 2013
    Ah the old clickback. Probs has J10 but whatever, doubt I'm folding KK here.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: KK get check raised by limper OTF:
    Ah the old clickback. Probs has J10 but whatever, doubt I'm folding KK here.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr

    I can see where your coming from with not wanting to fold KK.
    it is with him deciding to just limp pre that i'm thinking he's the strong type of hand rather than the draw heavy type hand.

    also with me being a nl4 reg I see this sort of thing all the time and 9 times out of 10 it is a better hand I will see.

    edit AJ was the only one I had him on that i'm ahead.
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  • LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,494
    edited November 2013
    Hey Craig, maybe raise a bit less pre, and on the flop.

    I think we are beat here too, but yeah i'd prob go with it.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited November 2013
    Wow, how did I miss that!!

    Pre might not be bad if we know they're just a complete station and don't limp/fold often, but going full pot on the flop is pretty bad
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  • simonnatursimonnatur Member Posts: 330
    edited November 2013
    good luck winning a tourney if you think about folding that hand on that board with your stack
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited November 2013
    theres just enoug draws to shove here imo.


    however because we've potted his raise looks soo much stronger, then again i doupt he cares lol. meh giiim not loving it though.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited November 2013

    does the size of my bets seeming to big have anything to do with being in position?
    but as I do have position if he did decide to chase it I could make the fold easy if the draw hit.

    the actual MTT this was from was a sat which I would think makes the odds of poor calls even greater

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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited November 2013
    Usually if I pot I don't intend on folding.
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  • DrRunGoodDrRunGood Member Posts: 436
    edited November 2013
    im just getting it in if he has j 10 so be it but he could have so many hands here you crush. plus a lot of draws he could be playing aggro I would just re shove let him figure out if hes best
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  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited November 2013

    well the truth was J10 and 44 were the only 2 expected so went for the jam, but the hand i did not expect in the slightest was 1010.
    so when i see him in the future i will know i can fold KK because he is sure to have hit extra strong if he reraises

    canifold Small blind  15.00 15.00 1715.00
    foster10 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2315.00
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		     
    mucka44420 Fold     
    ADD Call  30.00 75.00 1910.00
    craigcu12 Raise  150.00 225.00 1850.00
    canifold Fold     
    foster10 Fold     
    ADD Call  120.00 345.00 1790.00
    Flop
       
    • J
    • 4
    • 10
    		     
    ADD Check     
    craigcu12 Bet  345.00 690.00 1505.00
    ADD Raise  690.00 1380.00 1100.00
    craigcu12 All-in  1505.00 2885.00 0.00
    ADD All-in  1100.00 3985.00 0.00
    craigcu12 Unmatched bet  60.00 3925.00 60.00
    ADD Show
    • 10
    • 10
    		   
    craigcu12 Show
    • K
    • K
    		   
    Turn
       
    • 4
    		     
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    ADD Win Full House, 10s and 4s 3925.00  3925.00
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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: KK get check raised by limper OTF:
    so when i see him in the future i will know i can fold KK because he is sure to have hit extra strong if he reraises 
    Posted by craigcu12
    no you don't. you just know that he may play this way if superstrong. He may also play his draws the same way.

    here is a very similar example from the Primo last night. would i play the same way next time this happens - yep. Talking heads on the show last night apparently agreed it was standard play from both of us. Although if anyone would like to differ please do.

    Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance
    AB0151 Small blind   150.00 150.00 6563.87
    onelegleft Big blind   300.00 450.00 19540.00
      Your hole cards
    • K
    • K
    		     
    GELDY Raise   700.00 1150.00 8750.00
    mennell941 Fold        
    peon Fold        
    gac123 Fold        
    AB0151 Fold        
    onelegleft Call   400.00 1550.00 19140.00
    Flop
       
    • J
    • 9
    • 4
    		     
    onelegleft Check        
    GELDY Bet   1000.00 2550.00 7750.00
    onelegleft Raise   2000.00 4550.00 17140.00
    GELDY Raise   4250.00 8800.00 3500.00
    onelegleft Raise   6500.00 15300.00 10640.00
    GELDY All-in   3500.00 18800.00 0.00
    onelegleft Call   250.00 19050.00 10390.00
    onelegleft Show
    • 4
    • 4
    		     
    GELDY Show
    • K
    • K
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 7
    		     
    River
       
    • J
    		     
    onelegleft Win Full House, 4s and Jacks 19050.00 
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  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited November 2013
    I hate your 3b sizing (flop) geldy might aswell just shove imo. 


    ul both though


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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited November 2013
    Yeah think I'd either shove or call his flop click back. 

    Shove, because any J will probably pay us off, whereas raising again means we can never be bluffing and look very strong. Shipping it can give the impression we aren't as strong as we'd like to be...

    Call, because it's not a bad flop for us at all and we are not playing deep. Whilst there are flush and straight draws, we can look to get it in on most turn cards and be comfortably ahead way more than often.

    Just ul he flops a set. You've got like 30bb, KK and the flop is J high and you're getting action, happy days. Would need some serious history/notes/reads to not go broke here.
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  • iGoWaWaiGoWaWa Member Posts: 105
    edited November 2013
    Weird spot and player dependant.

    You raise has pretty much turned your hand face up so no idea why he is clicking back the set.

    If i am the villian i just call every street and bomb river, unless the board runs out 4 flushing by river.  Although you paid him off, his raise is really bad.  All he does is get the bottom of your range to fold (which he crushes) and the top of your range to maybe fold (fwiw i fold here a lot vs fish as they are not thinking players and their decisions are not +EV)

    The only hands i click back on the flop, as the villian, is air.  But again id only do that vs certain players that i know will fold big hands.....

    What a fun game poker is to think about.....

    So yeah, just fold if you think the villian is poor and jam if you think they are a thinking player
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