Anyone fold here??

iGoWaWa

Hand History #714259422 (22:13 26/11/2013)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancehdsportsSmall blind £0.10£0.10£12.45iGoWaWaBig blind £0.20£0.30£50.45emillie11Big blind £0.20£0.50£24.00 Your hole cards103   lisa1962Fold    wudibluffFold    emillie11Check    rancidFold    hdsportsCall £0.10£0.60£12.35iGoWaWaCheck    Flop  KA3   hdsportsCheck    iGoWaWaBet £0.45£1.05£50.00emillie11Call £0.45£1.50£23.55hdsportsFold    Turn  J   iGoWaWaBet £1.13£2.63£48.87emillie11Call £1.13£3.76£22.42River  2   iGoWaWaBet £1.88£5.64£46.99emillie11All-in £22.42£28.06£0.00iGoWaWa

iGoWaWa

No reads, villian folded first orbit or so

No history

Can we fold 2nd Nuts ever??

peter27

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here??:

No reads, villian folded first orbit or so No history Can we fold 2nd Nuts ever??
Posted by iGoWaWa

I would call. My thought process would be that if he did have the queen, would he really be jamming on the river and risk you folding? If you call and he does have the queen, then fair play to him! You win some, you lose some

simonnatur

Makes so little sense for villain to go nuts in this spot imo, really hate getting stacked with 10 3 s (I know we're the bb) Don't see people bluffing often enough at this level

Lambert180

It's pretty puke but it probably is a fold given how most people play at this level.

They're never going nuts with the 9h imo, they're probably never bluffing and they're never gonna go nuts with a set or anything. It's a flush and it has to be Qh.

I still probably call in game tho

The_Don90

i call in game, with about a minute to think i fold tho. Throw up a little though

a00rock

I cant fold in this spot with no reads have to call this off. If oppo has Qh then I just note how s/he played it and move on. If we fold to every raise/jam with 2nd nuts and no reads our poker roll wont last very long imho.

Lambert180

But what can they have?

It's a limped pot, by the river the pot is only £5 and he now wants to pile in £22? That's never a bluff. Imo it's never gonna be a set or worse cos people get scared of 4 flush boards (rightly so) when holding less than a flush, so imo we can be pretty certain it's a flush of some sort. And I just can't see villian ever going crazy with like a 7/8/9 high flush on a 4flush board, maybe that's just more of a 'population read' from 20NL but most people do tend to play pretty face up.

a00rock

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here??:

But what can they have? It's a limped pot, by the river the pot is only £5 and he now wants to pile in £22? That's never a bluff. Imo it's never gonna be a set or worse cos people get scared of 4 flush boards (rightly so) when holding less than a flush, so imo we can be pretty certain it's a flush of some sort. And I just can't see villian ever going crazy with like a 7/8/9 high flush on a 4flush board, maybe that's just more of a 'population read' from 20NL but most people do tend to play pretty face up.
Posted by Lambert180

It may well be the Qh m8 but we will never know for certain unless we call to see it. I know that's probably calling for information effectively and short term probably -ev but it should be valuable information for future ref. It could however be a total bluff as you say most people play face up at this level but by no means all of them.

hhyftrftdr

Limped pot, yet villain can't wait to play for stacks on the river....

Any reads/history? A good player here could shove quite wide knowing you can only call (in theory) with a very certain single card in your hand. A poor player is unlikely to be thinking on that level...

I'd fold readless.

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here??:

Limped pot, yet villain can't wait to play for stacks on the river.... Any reads/history? A good player here could shove quite wide knowing you can only call (in theory) with a very certain single card in your hand. A poor player is unlikely to be thinking on that level... I'd fold readless.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I don't see any good player shoving to win £3/£4, whilst jeapordizing £20 odd pound.

It's a really easy fold.

F_Ivanovic

Kinda interesting these kind of spots. I mean other than the Qh for value, what else do people raise with on the river? ie. any bluffs/Th only for value?

rancid

would think he turned the Q high flush, just fold.

bb taps table then goes nuts on river lol game

iGoWaWa

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here??:

Kinda interesting these kind of spots. I mean other than the Qh for value, what else do people raise with on the river? ie. any bluffs/Th only for value?
Posted by F_Ivanovic

This is why the spot is so odd, as i would raise the river with a pretty wide range.

As i had no reads on villian, i just folded.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here??:

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here?? : I don't see any good player shoving to win £3/£4, whilst jeapordizing £20 odd pound. It's a really easy fold.
Posted by LARSON7

Well no, in this specific hand it looks pretty clear that villain isn't a great player (limping in), hence why I think it's a fold as you know they will turn up with Qh.

In this scenario vs a decent player, the hand may well have played out differently, but it's a good spot for a thinking player to try and bluff another thinking player.

LARSON7

lol HH true, but I don't think they would shove their whole stack! not for what's in the pot! You would hopefully bluff less than 20 million times the pot:P

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Anyone fold here??:

lol HH true, but I don't think they would shove their whole stack! not for what's in the pot! You would hopefully bluff less than 20 million times the pot:P
Posted by LARSON7

Well you should really be taking the same line as a bluff as you would with Qh. Don't wanna overbet jam the nuts, but bluff raise small... not against anyone paying attention anyway.

LARSON7

That's true Paul, but usually in proportion to the pot, the bets 4 xtimes the pot (or whatever it is), it's a massive over bet.

Imo jamming 4/5 times the pot as a bluff/ with the nuts, is pretty bad,

NColley

sometimes just gotta make those exploitative folds yo

DOHHHHHHH

looks a fairly easy fold?