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Line Check
gazza127
Member Posts: 2,156
OK... just a general line check here...
Thoughts on raising the flop? Im doing it to charge club draws and possible straight draws. I bet the turn for value from these hands as well.
Now I suppose the question here is do I value bet the river? At the time my thinking was if he has missed his draw then im not getting anymore money and more often than not if I bet im only getting called by better (sets... already made flushes). The only hand I think I can get value from is AK... but decide not to bet on this occasion as I have little room to bet/fold.
Thoughts?
Thoughts on raising the flop? Im doing it to charge club draws and possible straight draws. I bet the turn for value from these hands as well.
Now I suppose the question here is do I value bet the river? At the time my thinking was if he has missed his draw then im not getting anymore money and more often than not if I bet im only getting called by better (sets... already made flushes). The only hand I think I can get value from is AK... but decide not to bet on this occasion as I have little room to bet/fold.
Thoughts?
| Mactrad1 | Small blind | £0.25 | £0.25 | £153.06 | |
| EBBERDON | Big blind | £0.50 | £0.75 | £25.07 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| XX | Raise | £1.50 | £2.25 | £95.50 | |
| gazza127 | Call | £1.50 | £3.75 | £202.78 | |
| kcxyz | Call | £1.50 | £5.25 | £101.76 | |
| Mactrad1 | Call | £1.25 | £6.50 | £151.81 | |
| EBBERDON | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| Mactrad1 | Check | ||||
| XX | Bet | £5.00 | £11.50 | £90.50 | |
| gazza127 | Raise | £13.25 | £24.75 | £189.53 | |
| kcxyz | Fold | ||||
| Mactrad1 | Fold | ||||
| XX | Call | £8.25 | £33.00 | £82.25 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| XX | Check | ||||
| gazza127 | Bet | £17.00 | £50.00 | £172.53 | |
| XX | Call | £17.00 | £67.00 | £65.25 | |
| River | |||||
| |||||
| XX | Check | ||||
| gazza127 | Check | ||||
Comments
Think this is a really easy value bet.
Anything between 14-25ish is better than checking back, in.my.opinion.
it seems that this time i totally agree with IVAN..
given the line weve taken and we have a total bluff catcher and would struggle gettin any calls from worse on river - i like the thought of turning into a bluff but doubt anyone folds any flush here -
If we have been bluffing left, right and centre raising draws, barrelling, etc., then this is a good spot to give the villain a chance to bluff-catch with his weaker Kx or perhaps QQ/JJ/AT. If that's our image, it's probably a mistake not to value-bet here. Of course that image should be altered by the fact we were 4-handed to the flop. We'd value-shove because we'd bluff-shove our missed draws.
If we haven't been very 'aggro' then just check-back. As others have said, raising the flop 4-handed and what-not has repped a very strong range if our image isn't a bit mental.
In a vacuum, I'd check back.
Let's have a look at this, ok yeah we look plenty strong raising where we have and who we have. But I just don't think too many people are checking flushes and full houses on the river. I am worried about AA only. If we shove this river villain can easily take a view we have either those super strong and busted draw hands. Plenty has missed which we can take this line with (AcQx, Ac,Jx, QJ with a club, bare AcX). That is how you get your AK, KQ, QcQx calls.
I think you're killing your value by not betting here. And I like me a big bet.
I'm not sure it's too thin though, I just don't see the oppo having more than a strong one pair type hand here. Let's give ourselves other holdings:
If we had AcQx etc would you advocate emptying the clip?
If we were the villain would you call a third barrel with two red Aces, with AcAx (the first is a more comfortable call than the second imo) or with AK?
If we were the villain would you call a third barrel with two red Aces, with AcAx (the first is a more comfortable call than the second imo) or with AK?To answer your first question: yes, absolutely. But this and AcJx are near enough the only bluff hands I have in this spot. Contrast that to all the value hands I have (flushes + FH's) and we have far too many value hands compared to bluff hands for a competent villain to be calling us down with one pair.
Shhhhhh Tommy! There's at least one or two people on here who still think I have the nuts each time!
I thought it was well known I never bluff? Its always a merge... Sometimes A high shoves can still get called by K high right??
Either way. At the beginning of this session I was spewing chips left, right and centre... but as you can see from my chip stack I have been doing quite well. Why is this you ask? Well I tightened up a fair bit after this spewathon and my past play had caused people to call in spots they wouldnt normally. The opponents were beginning to tighten their range v me at this point realising I was playing more TAG than LAG and i wasnt getting paid as often.
So when I shove here I do think that the vast majority of the time I'm only going to be called by better. Its hard to see many hands at all which I beat which would call here. Yeah they may think im bluffing and call light with a single pair, but given player dynamic at the time I thought id be turning my hand into a bluff by shoving.
FWIW opponent turned up with a 7 high flopped flush.
Although I was wondering if long term I should be shoving river here, or perhaps it depends on player dynamic at the time?
I also think I can't bet/fold as others have said... it probably caps my range if i bet tiny on the river.
would depend heavily on any kind of levelling war with villian if we shove
we need them to fold AA/flushes so much that for the very eason we want them to call when we have houses/nut flushes - I don't see that they fold enough - probably a break even shove if played correctly so i lean towards either checking or b/f verus villians with reads on how they play 1 pr hands on these textures.
overall a check is probably best