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Can i call this?

davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
edited December 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Oppo has being limping and playing a lot of pots oop,

With the chunky raise pre, is this an overpair or AK/ AQ etc??

Call or fold people??
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
coppers Small blind  20.00 20.00 910.00
BOOBOO81 Big blind  40.00 60.00 3740.00
 Your hole cards
  • 10
  • 10
   
PARADISE73 Call  40.00 100.00 2400.00
xxxx Raise  200.00 300.00 2482.50
rudders07 Fold     
davelufc Call  200.00 500.00 4942.50
coppers Fold     
BOOBOO81 Fold     
PARADISE73 Fold     
Flop
  
  • 3
  • 2
  • 5
   
xxxx All-in  2482.50 2982.50 0.00
davelufc ??

Comments

  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,828
    edited December 2013
    Im probably being a bit too nitty but I'm folding here. It seems out of character for him to raise when he's been limp/calling and it was a strong pre raise. For him then to just shove is either a strong PP or overs with a good draw. We still have a very healthy stack which is my main reason to just fold.

    We have only invested 200 so again, we can find better spots to get all our chips in and for a bigger pot.
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited December 2013
    I'm snap calling here.  This looks so much like AK,AQ, possibly 77-99.  He may also have a flush draw with 2 overs, like KQs,AKs,AQs, etc.  He knows that this board does not hit you.  Looks like he just wants to take it down, praying that you have AJ+ or folding out a low PP.

    Very strange way to play JJ+ or a set.  I just can't see him turning up with JJ+ here.
  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited December 2013
    yep im calling here, if i had a pound for every time ive seen a fish do this with AK id be playing the world series next year.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013
    I'm folding this myself.
    I make the mistake of calling these too much myself weather it's on the micro cash or MTT.

    if he has been limping and calling then it's a clear sign of someone who has to have it before going all in.
    some might think he would do in with AK, I don't even think he would raise that pre instead he is probably going to limp call then donk if the card comes on the flop.

    we might not play sets or premiums like this but fish will play any good hand like this including sets and premiums.
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: Can i call this?:
    I'm folding this myself. I make the mistake of calling these too much myself weather it's on the micro cash or MTT. if he has been limping and calling then it's a clear sign of someone who has to have it before going all in. some might think he would do in with AK, I don't even think he would raise that pre instead he is probably going to limp call then donk if the card comes on the flop. we might not play sets or premiums like this but fish will play any good hand like this including sets and premiums.
    Posted by craigcu12
    What makes you think that?  I know some will, but it's very far and few between and the only time they really play AA KK this way is when the flop is Q or K high(K high being they have AA)  Hoping you've hit and are paying them off.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: Can i call this?:
    In Response to Re: Can i call this? : What makes you think that?  I know some will, but it's very far and few between and the only time they really play AA KK this way is when the flop is Q or K high(K high being they have AA)  Hoping you've hit and are paying them off.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    limpers who have been so passive don't think one bit about what the chances are that you call and nothing proves that more than flushes.
    they will chase them down to the very last street but the minute they hit they will donk it even over bet not thinking at all about our chance of calling.

    premium pairs and sets are always played badly by fish and it's usually in on of these ways

    1) they can't wait to get it in so will over bet often without even thinking about the board itself.

    2) their are the very slow and passive ones who will limp and check call preflop and flops, they begin getting aggressive on the turn although some will be so passive and not have did any bet.
  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited December 2013
    Fold.
  • DiminuendoDiminuendo Member Posts: 222
    edited December 2013
    Fold from me aswell
  • SlipwaterSlipwater Member Posts: 3,611
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: Can i call this?:
    yep im calling here, if i had a pound for every time ive seen a fish do this with AK id be playing the world series next year.
    Posted by THEROCK573
    I have to agree here. It smells like AK all the way. I would be hesitant, but I'm probably calling too.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2013
    Craig the villian in the hand that we're concerned with didn't limp. Someone else limped and then villian made an iso to 5x so all of the passive comments aren't relevant
  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,828
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: Can i call this?:
    Craig the villian in the hand that we're concerned with didn't limp. Someone else limped and then villian made an iso to 5x so all of the passive comments aren't relevant
    Posted by Lambert180
    This is why I lean to towards a fold. Its out of character for a l/c to raise and to a decent size too. We have put little in at this point so we can fold and find better spots. I find pple do this a lot with JJ and QQ's
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: Can i call this?:
    Craig the villian in the hand that we're concerned with didn't limp. Someone else limped and then villian made an iso to 5x so all of the passive comments aren't relevant
    Posted by Lambert180
    the way I read it is, dave is saying that the guy who has did this raise was himself doing lots of limp calling.
    If the limp caller is the same one who has did it in this hand, then we just putting random guesses in on what type of play this villain who has open raised actually is and I'm thinking he  is more like a maniac or LAG than a fish or passive player.
  • davelufcdavelufc Member Posts: 1,374
    edited December 2013
    Thanks fellas, made the sigh call!! It really seemed like a strange line for oppo to take!!

    Felt like AK/ AQ or mid PP, wrong again. ( way to donk off 60 BBs there dave wp! )

    Mixed views again!! Never straight forward this game eh?? Thanks again all.


     
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    coppers Small blind  20.00 20.00 910.00
    BOOBOO81 Big blind  40.00 60.00 3740.00
     Your hole cards
    • 10
    • 10
       
    PARADISE73 Call  40.00 100.00 2400.00
    xxxx Raise  200.00 300.00 2482.50
    rudders07 Fold     
    davelufc Call  200.00 500.00 4942.50
    coppers Fold     
    BOOBOO81 Fold     
    PARADISE73 Fold     
    Flop
      
    • 3
    • 2
    • 5
       
    xxxx All-in  2482.50 2982.50 0.00
    davelufc Call  2482.50 5465.00 2460.00
    xxxx Show
    • J
    • J
       
    davelufc Show
    • 10
    • 10
       
    Turn
      
    • 4
       
    River
      
    • 2
       
    xxxx Win Two Pairs, Jacks and 2s 5465.00  5465.00

     
  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited December 2013
    still think its a call regardless of result, he shows up with AK, AQ AJ and 66, 77, 88, 99  a **** of a lot more than JJ+
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: Can i call this?:
    still think its a call regardless of result, he shows up with AK, AQ AJ and 66, 77, 88, 99  a **** of a lot more than JJ+
    Posted by THEROCK573
    This ^

    Just cos passive villians take off, it doesn't mean they have the nuts, what it means is that the player has a hand that they think is effectively the nuts - BIG difference. Plenty of bad players (think we can assume they're bad from OP) over value hands and just think, wow I have an overpair! etd.
  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA Member Posts: 954
    edited December 2013
    I make plenty of chips snapping off in situations like this.  Yes, villain turned up with JJ this time, but most of the time it's AK,AQ and mid pairs as I stated in my original post.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013

    if we saying they over value middle pairs AK AQ KQ what we should be asking is why was it just a call preflop?

    if we going to call a jam with 1010 post flop then why not do a 3bet preflop.

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2013
    Well first of all, there's a massive difference between how people view a hand preflop and postflop. Most people have a general idea about what hands you should be getting all in preflop if we have a lot of chips. So a lot of people will see 77 pre flop as a medium strength hand but when they have a lot of chips think getting it in will just mean flipping or being against a bigger pair. However, give them a 246 flop with 77 and they suddenly forget that like 50% of the range they were scared of preflop (88+) is still there and crushing them.

    FWIW, I think we can 3bet preflop, although it would have to be with the intention of calling a shove imo, which again we can do against some opponents. 

    Basically, he's probably got zero sets in his range (would he really not just limp along with 22/33/55?) and I can't see him raising 23/35/52/A4/46 preflop so no 2pr hands and no straights. If we're putting him on exclusively JJ+ then why are we calling preflop? Are we set-mining? lol cos that would be terrible with these stack sizes.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013

    they might not all do what this one did with his JJ but I've read a lot and what lots of sites which offer tips say is this. Loose/passive poker players seldom raise the pot unless they have got a big hand. So unless you are certain you have them beat, respect their raises and fold. my guess is that is what this one sounds like since he is limp calling lots.

    I went out the main when a villain limped called pre with KJs then called the flop but the turn comes Q he gets his straight and right away he raised my bet so i go all in and he shows it.

    I had AK raised pre and was called i cbet on the flop which had AKx he then calls a 10 comes on the turn and we both check then on the river he does a full pot bet and what does he have QJ.

    A one with K8s limp calls pre while i raise with my 77 then on the flop comes 2 hearts and he check calls the 3rd heart comes on the turn and he checks and so i check then on the river he does a full pot bet and again he reveals the nut flush.

    One who limped with A10 and called when i open raised then did a full pot bet on the flop which had A J 10 rainbow.

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