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checking for deception

craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
edited December 2013 in The Poker Clinic

here were two hands played in a very similar fashion on the same table. I didn't have any read on the villians of both hands but having seen what they did I regret how I played it.
it might seem like I am being results orientated but what I am really questioning is does trapping and checking for deception need very good reads on the opponents and is it more likely to cause a loss in the long run than a winnings?

plywood Small blind  10.00 10.00 1670.00
JOXER1968 Big blind  20.00 30.00 1980.00
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
xCall  20.00 50.00 1980.00
craigcu12 Raise  80.00 130.00 1920.00
guess04 Fold     
 Fold     
plywood Fold     
JOXER1968 Call  60.00 190.00 1920.00
xCall  60.00 250.00 1920.00
Flop
   
  • K
  • Q
  • 9
     
JOXER1968 Check     
xCheck     
craigcu12 Bet  140.00 390.00 1780.00
JOXER1968 Fold     
xCall  140.00 530.00 1780.00
Turn
   
  • Q
     
xCheck     
craigcu12 Check     
River
   
  • J
     
xCheck     
craigcu12 Bet  397.50 927.50 1382.50
xCall  397.50 1325.00 1382.50
craigcu12 Show
  • K
  • K
   
xMuck
  • 8
  • Q
   
craigcu12 Win Full House, Kings and Queens 1325.00  2707.50
JOXER1968 Small blind  15.00 15.00 3865.00
 Big blind  30.00 45.00 1447.50
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • K
     
craigcu12 Raise  90.00 135.00 3047.50
LFB Fold     
xCall  90.00 225.00 1480.00
plywood Call  90.00 315.00 1500.00
JOXER1968 Fold     
 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 7
  • 2
  • K
     
craigcu12 Check     
xCheck     
plywood Check     
Turn
   
  • 4
     
craigcu12 Bet  180.00 495.00 2867.50
xAll-in  1480.00 1975.00 0.00
plywood Fold     
craigcu12 Call  1300.00 3275.00 1567.50
craigcu12 Show
  • A
  • K
   
xShow
  • 7
  • 4
   
River
   
  • J
     
xWin Two Pairs, 7s and 4s 3275.00  3275.00

Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited December 2013
    Hand 1 - I'm just carrying on betting on the turn, we wanna be stacking people with our big hands as much as possible and you have no chance of stacking them if you check the turn. Also it's unlikely they have a K as we know where 3 of them are, so he's either got a Q (never folding) or a straight, 2pr, pr + draw etc and most of these aren't folding.

    hand 2 - Definitely wouldn't be giving up the betting lead here. Is your plan to just check/call 3 streets? Cos check/raising is too strong on such a dry board, and check/calling all the way just leaves open the door for them to checkback and we miss value. I'd expect we'd be betting this flop if we had AQ, so bet it with AK too.
  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited December 2013
    Pretty much never checking in either of these spots for the reasons Lambert has already stated. 
  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited December 2013
    Craig, I think it would be best for now if you just learnt to never slow play/trap. There are times when it can be profitable but vs most player types the best line is to just keep betting. Hence if you don't know if it's a good situation to slow play, don't. Just bet!
  • LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,494
    edited December 2013
    Don't slow play, just take people to value town.
  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited December 2013
    hand 2 isnt so bad because the flops so dry and you get unlucky  but id still be betting everytime. 

    hand 1 is perfect for 3 streets of value, cant think why we would ever check in this spot to be honest when theres so many combination of hands that call us down.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013

    hand 1 I can see my mistake being that he had already did a limp preflop so that doesn't look much like a villain who would bluff and then having shown signs of fear on the turn if i now jammed the river even trip queens might fold.

    hand 2 I didn't think enough about what I would do if I were holding AQ or 88-1010 as i would have cbet with them that's for sure.

  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: checking for deception:
    hand 1 I can see my mistake being that he had already did a limp preflop so that doesn't look much like a villain who would bluff and then having shown signs of fear on the turn if i now jammed the river even trip queens might fold. hand 2 I didn't think enough about what I would do if I were holding AQ or 88-1010 as i would have cbet with them that's for sure.
    Posted by craigcu12
    people on sky poker dont fold trip queens mate :-)
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: checking for deception:
    In Response to Re: checking for deception : people on sky poker dont fold trip queens mate :-)
    Posted by THEROCK573
    that's true but at the time i wasn't totally sure he had trips so although trips and 10x were both calling hands Jx or the last K would be folding if i did jam.
  • THEROCK573THEROCK573 Member Posts: 2,550
    edited December 2013
    In Response to Re: checking for deception:
    In Response to Re: checking for deception : that's true but at the time i wasn't totally sure he had trips so although trips and 10x were both calling hands Jx or the last K would be folding if i did jam.
    Posted by craigcu12
    yeah i know you dont know for sure he has trip queens but you still have to set up smashing the river by betting the turn, its a standard 3 streets spot this mate.
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