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Good or bad play?

gazza127gazza127 Member Posts: 2,156
edited January 2014 in The Poker Clinic
We are on the money bubble in primo.  Everyone is a bit tetchy.... ergo perfect time to build a stack being a bit more aggressive and kick on.  I've been on the table about 15 mins and have a pretty solid image having already built a stack through decent holdings.  The bubble has only been going for about 5 - 10 minutes.

Question is.... is this move good or bad play?  ICM must factor into any call villain has to make as his tourney life is on the line, so theoretically he should be folding most 1 pair hands.  I dont think I can have many bluffs in my range here as the flop had just the one draw.  I suppose villain might think ive picked up added equity on flushing turn but he's got to assume my range here is leaning much more towards value than bluff.  This is exactly what id do with 1010, 88, 108 (actually 108 i might just call down) and any 4.

I've done the bluff with 8 outs soooo theres that I suppose too.
poker69 Small blind   500.00 500.00 41688.25
gazza127 Big blind   1000.00 1500.00 37965.78
  Your hole cards
  • 7
  • 9
     
X Raise   2000.00 3500.00 30753.50
Barrie26 Fold        
Eyeman Fold        
Widey Call   2000.00 5500.00 23881.50
poker69 Fold        
gazza127 Call   1000.00 6500.00 36965.78
Flop
   
  • 10
  • 8
  • 4
     
gazza127 Check        
X Bet   3250.00 9750.00 27503.50
Widey Fold        
gazza127 Call   3250.00 13000.00 33715.78
Turn
   
  • 4
     
gazza127 Check        
X Bet   6500.00 19500.00 21003.50
gazza127 All-in   33715.78 53215.78 0.00
X All-in   21003.50 74219.28 0.00
gazza127 Unmatched bet   6212.28 68007.00 6212.28
gazza127 Show
  • 7
  • 9
     
X Show
  • K
  • 10
     
River
   
  • 7
     
X Win Two Pairs, 10s and 4s 68007.00   68007.00



Am I lolbad?  Please be gentle... it was quite the harsh bubble for me instead!
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Comments

  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2014
    ''he's got to assume my range here is leaning much more towards value than bluff.''

    This is Sky Gazza! No idea who villain is obvs, but the average MTT guy here won't even consider your holding and what you are repping. As far as 'they' are concerned, they have top pair almost top kicker and therefore can't really be losing. 

    It's difficult to fault your play as such; you applied maximum pressure on another good sized stack on the bubble. Unfortunate you ran into a complete station, perhaps this was just the wrong person to run this bluff against. It's also possibly a tad spewy ;) as we could already be drawing dead on the turn, or drawing pretty thin should they hold something like A10h.

    I probably shouldn't comment after my Primo exit hand tonight ;)
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  • bolly580bolly580 Member Posts: 603
    edited January 2014
    This is quite something
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  • gazza127gazza127 Member Posts: 2,156
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Good or bad play?:
    This is quite something
    Posted by bolly580

    meaning...
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited January 2014
    Yeah I don't like the play but then I made a similar awful bluff recently when I was cruising in the £22 deepy (this was final table bubble w 5 cash) so it's easy to see why it seems like a good idea at the time. But it's not the best turn to be making this play on and his betting suggests he has some hand which probably isn't folding to a shove.

    I would prefer a flop raise instead with this hand I think.

    "This is sky Gazza" could be rephrased to "but this is Gazza, ofc opponent is calling with 1 pair ;) "
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  • DiminuendoDiminuendo Member Posts: 222
    edited January 2014
    I like the play mate but it would be much better doing it v someone you know will fold instead of someone your hoping to make fold.

    Like harry said any amount of guys on here wont even think about your hand so your better off keeping plays like this for the ones that will.

    FWIW i think you played the hand much the best even though he won it because making calls like that in the long term is def gonna be a losing play in general.
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  • seppeseppe Member Posts: 287
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Good or bad play?:
    ''he's got to assume my range here is leaning much more towards value than bluff.'' This is Sky Gazza! No idea who villain is obvs, but the average MTT guy here won't even consider your holding and what you are repping. As far as 'they' are concerned, they have top pair almost top kicker and therefore can't really be losing.  It's difficult to fault your play as such; you applied maximum pressure on another good sized stack on the bubble. Unfortunate you ran into a complete station, perhaps this was just the wrong person to run this bluff against. It's also possibly a tad spewy ;) as we could already be drawing dead on the turn, or drawing pretty thin should they hold something like A10h. I probably shouldn't comment after my Primo exit hand tonight ;)
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    just a tad harsh, has gazza done anything to makin the villain think his 1 pair is no good? no, looks like a i dunno were iam so il shove
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  • TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Good or bad play?:
    We are on the money bubble in primo.  Everyone is a bit tetchy.... ergo perfect time to build a stack being a bit more aggressive and kick on.  I've been on the table about 15 mins and have a pretty solid image having already built a stack through decent holdings.  The bubble has only been going for about 5 - 10 minutes. Question is.... is this move good or bad play?  ICM must factor into any call villain has to make as his tourney life is on the line, so theoretically he should be folding most 1 pair hands.  I dont think I can have many bluffs in my range here as the flop had just the one draw.  I suppose villain might think ive picked up added equity on flushing turn but he's got to assume my range here is leaning much more towards value than bluff.  This is exactly what id do with 1010, 88, 108 (actually 108 i might just call down) and any 4. I've done the bluff with 8 outs soooo theres that I suppose too. poker69 Small blind   500.00 500.00 41688.25 gazza127 Big blind   1000.00 1500.00 37965.78   Your hole cards 7 9       X Raise   2000.00 3500.00 30753.50 Barrie26 Fold         Eyeman Fold         Widey Call   2000.00 5500.00 23881.50 poker69 Fold         gazza127 Call   1000.00 6500.00 36965.78 Flop     10 8 4       gazza127 Check         X Bet   3250.00 9750.00 27503.50 Widey Fold         gazza127 Call   3250.00 13000.00 33715.78 Turn     4       gazza127 Check         X Bet   6500.00 19500.00 21003.50 gazza127 All-in   33715.78 53215.78 0.00 X All-in   21003.50 74219.28 0.00 gazza127 Unmatched bet   6212.28 68007.00 6212.28 gazza127 Show 7 9       X Show K 10       River     7       X Win Two Pairs, 10s and 4s 68007.00   68007.00 Am I lolbad?  Please be gentle... it was quite the harsh bubble for me instead!
    Posted by gazza127

    The paired four is an awkward card to bluff at imo

    Doesnt help your range much doesnt change the board texture, and it improves any overpairs in his range. 

    As is your repping TT, 88 and AT after flatting in a nice spot for some of those hands to squeeze.

    And your gazza127 who can 7-bet flops with king high when you smell weakness ;)

    Not a bad spot to bluff by any means, he can definately have air and even the hand he had will be folded by some.



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  • CraigSG1CraigSG1 Member Posts: 1,828
    edited January 2014
    I think if your going to bluff then bluff raise flop. Any shove you then make has more meaning. 

    I dont like the turn shove at all as why would you shove a FH if you are repping a set and any over pair surely your reraising pre? So on that basis I dont think the call is as bad as it looks. He's only really losing to A10 and the shove looks a lot like a draw or weak 10. 
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited January 2014
    bad card to bluff, your repping so narrow - if your repping narrow then you have to play verus people that respect your raises :D


    you should raise flop where you have greater overall equity

    if your going to take this line then I prefer call turn, shove river :)








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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Good or bad play?:
    In Response to Re: Good or bad play? : just a tad harsh, has gazza done anything to makin the villain think his 1 pair is no good? no, looks like a i dunno were iam so il shove
    Posted by seppe
    I beg to differ. Don't think it was harsh in the slightest. The villains hand might have been good here, but way more often than not, when he's check raised all in on the turn, his one pair is in really bad shape. 

    Had the villain posted this hand (obvs blanking out Gazza's alias), asking what to do when he's check raised for his tourney life on the turn, I'd be very surprised if the general consenus was anything other than fold without very oppo specific reads.
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited January 2014
    If villain has a value hand he's not confident in, he doesn't bet the turn.

    That means either the villain is bluffing himself - which would mean barrelling a paired 4 on the turn after being called on a dry flop - or he's got a value hand that he's not folding.

    So I don't like our line at all. There are so few draws on the flop that floating it to rep a turn becomes harder. Being out of position as well probably makes it impossible for the flop call to be profitable if the plan is then to bluff missed turns.

    Definitely check-raising the flop if I'm calling pre-flop.
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited January 2014
    4 is one of the nut worst card's to make this move imo. What value hands are we repping by taking this line? Pretty much only 88 and 1010 and some random 4.

    Completely disagree with the idea that you have been stationed here. As played I think most good villains are calling.
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  • gracie24gracie24 Member Posts: 227
    edited January 2014
    Fold to raise. For me as soon as widey calls a raise just hope he goes all the way or wounds X. There are better places to risk your stack.
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