Tournament spot with Queens

Sky_Poker

Hi

We posted a hand on the cash strategy thread here. So a similar scenario to discuss but for a tournament to see how it might play differently...

Event = Super Roller (£110 buy-in)
Blinds = 400/800
Stage = approaching the bubble
Your stack (under the gun) = 40,000
Opponent 1 stack (button) = 60,000
Opponent 2 stack (big blind) = 20,000

- You raise to 2,400 with QQ
- Opponent 1 re-raises on the button to 8,000
- Then opponent 2 shoves his full stack

Both are fairly good players but have shown some agressive play in previous hands. However, opponent 1 you consider to be tight-agressive from when you have played with them and opponent 2 is loose-aggressive.

What do you do here and why?

GCDF

I Fold the tourney shove the ring game.

GCDF

Changed my mind i shove both.

yoyo

i dislike the opening & 3b sizings but going on the info given i'm probably leaning towards a fold, on paper...i think it's pretty close tho & there are many factors that would nudge it the other way;

if it's a tough table i'm more inclined to gamble

how the tight/aggressive big stack views me is also important ie, if he's seen me messing about or we have history then the 3b could look more like a steal & i'm snap shoving on him

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Tournament spot with Queens:

i dislike the opening & 3b sizings but going on the info given i'm probably leaning towards a fold, on paper...i think it's pretty close tho & there are many factors that would nudge it the other way; if it's a tough table i'm more inclined to gamble how the tight/aggressive big stack views me is also important ie, if he's seen me messing about or we have history then the 3b could look more like a steal & i'm snap shoving on him
Posted by yoyo

How much would you have opened for Mr Thew?

ROCKET1982

dont be bullied by big bets. pairs of queens is a lovely hand raise or all in all the way if you lose u lose that poker. i would rather have taken the chance on the queens than fold odds are more in you favour only kings and aces that might beat you. gamble baby and ride the crest of the wave of luck lol

Slipwater

yoyo doesn't know what he's talking about

It's probably a fold. If it's one opponent, it's a call every day of the week, but with the mystery man in the middle (who has you covered), tournament life comes into the equation.

yoyo

In Response to Re: Tournament spot with Queens:

In Response to Re: Tournament spot with Queens : How much would you have opened for Mr Thew?
Posted by Sky_Poker

3x'ing UTG is too big, as is a 3b from 2400 to 8000,

i prefer min raising or min raising plus a little bit, so, 1600-1800 & for a 3b with position i'd prob go somewhere in the 3400-4200 ball park

hhyftrftdr

This is a little to close for comfort for me.....posted a very similar hand (less the third player) from the Roller the other week. Basically 4bet folded QQ, what a tool.

As always, table dynamic will play a big part. It's probably a fold, but I think in game in this instance I might be inclined to re-ship on the 3bettor. Though the fact that OP2 has cold 4bet all in with zero fold equity means they should be very strong Ie AKs minimum but probably more likely AA/KK.

Meh, close either way.

MattBates

In Response to Re: Tournament spot with Queens:

i dislike the opening & 3b sizings but going on the info given i'm probably leaning towards a fold, on paper...i think it's pretty close tho & there are many factors that would nudge it the other way; if it's a tough table i'm more inclined to gamble how the tight/aggressive big stack views me is also important ie, if he's seen me messing about or we have history then the 3b could look more like a steal & i'm snap shoving on him
Posted by yoyo

Quite often people analyse their opponents but don't analyse what their opponents likely view is of themselves. The hand plays very differently if we are considered splashy or if we are considered tighter than Tommy D. This part is important as is what the table is playing like. If we are winning a load of uncontested pots then that can be another reason towards folding if we feel their range is very strong JJ+ as we can win a load of uncontested chips. As Julian said the 3x open is too big and creates a load of problems, the 3 bet is large but we should have an idea about whether this is standard for our opponent or not, and we cant do anything about our opponents 3betting so big. We want to open a lot of pots but risk a smaller amount each time, eg min raise open. 

yoyo

In Response to Re: Tournament spot with Queens:

In Response to Re: Tournament spot with Queens : Quite often people analyse their opponents but don't analyse what their opponents likely view is of themselves. The hand plays very differently if we are considered splashy or if we are considered tighter than Tommy D. This part is important as is what the table is playing like. If we are winning a load of uncontested pots then that can be another reason towards folding if we feel their range is very strong JJ+ as we can win a load of uncontested chips. As Julian said the 3x open is too big and creates a load of problems, the 3 bet is large but we should have an idea about whether this is standard for our opponent or not, and we cant do anything about our opponents 3betting so big. We want to open a lot of pots but risk a smaller amount each time, eg min raise open. 
Posted by MattBates

don't be tarring us all with your brush mr bates ;o)

Lambert180

Yeah open and 3b are both way too big. Imo should be more like minraise to 1600 and a 3bet to say 3800 ish. As played, I definitely fold. It's probably a fold more often than not in general but with it being 

1) the bubble

2) the biggest MTT on Sky

People really tighten up round the bubble, so wouldn't be surprised if opponent 2 has exclusively KK/AA (maaaybe AK at a push) cos he will know opponent 1 is probably never folding.