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Did I eventually make the correct decision?
shakinaces
Member Posts: 1,590
I don't think I've ever played the SB or BB before and hadn't been sat down long. The button I've seen a few times and appears reasonably competent TAG player, it's certainly not one of those instances where I think I'm being 3-bet super-light, although I kind of feel like he'd go bigger if it was AA or KK.
My initial raise was a mis-click of sorts, I clicked the mouse on the '+' twice (ro raise to 3x) but it didn't register my 2nd click... must take more care (I seem to do this way too frequently).
Mis-click aside I'm not unhappy with the open.
I'd have not called the 3-bet if the blinds had folded - if I was further into the session I may have 4-bet, but most likely I'd have folded. As it is, it felt like 3x into a pot of 17x (with me closing the betting) was almost obligatory.
As mentioned, don't know the players in the blinds. Assumed the donk and call (after cold-calling 3b oop) was likely to be medium pairs and / or various combinations of flush/straight draws.
I figure to be in reasonable shape versus these holdings, albeit I could end up in a dominated position re flushes or two-pairs (AdXd isn't impossible, KT means hitting 2-pair would leave me in a tough spot).
I don't see anyway I can not fold to the button raise, although I did toy with just jamming my stack. I'm figuring most likely holding is QQ or JJ that hopes someone will punt with a flush/OESD/both or even 55. I don't think there was enough money already in the pot to gamble my whole stack?
Either way I think folding is right... but was I one or two spots late in binning my cards?
My initial raise was a mis-click of sorts, I clicked the mouse on the '+' twice (ro raise to 3x) but it didn't register my 2nd click... must take more care (I seem to do this way too frequently).
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Darlow | Small blind | £0.05 | £0.05 | £24.74 | |
| Lichaj | Big blind | £0.10 | £0.15 | £17.82 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Lascelles | Fold | ||||
| shakinaces | Raise | £0.20 | £0.35 | £19.80 | |
| Hobbs | Raise | £0.50 | £0.85 | £19.50 | |
| Darlow | Call | £0.45 | £1.30 | £24.29 | |
| Lichaj | Call | £0.40 | £1.70 | £17.42 | |
| shakinaces | Call | £0.30 | £2.00 | £19.50 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Darlow | Bet | £1.00 | £3.00 | £23.29 | |
| Lichaj | Call | £1.00 | £4.00 | £16.42 | |
| shakinaces | Call | £1.00 | £5.00 | £18.50 | |
| Hobbs | Raise | £10.20 | £15.20 | £9.30 | |
| Darlow | Fold | ||||
| Lichaj | Fold | ||||
| shakinaces | ???? | ||||
I'd have not called the 3-bet if the blinds had folded - if I was further into the session I may have 4-bet, but most likely I'd have folded. As it is, it felt like 3x into a pot of 17x (with me closing the betting) was almost obligatory.
As mentioned, don't know the players in the blinds. Assumed the donk and call (after cold-calling 3b oop) was likely to be medium pairs and / or various combinations of flush/straight draws.
I figure to be in reasonable shape versus these holdings, albeit I could end up in a dominated position re flushes or two-pairs (AdXd isn't impossible, KT means hitting 2-pair would leave me in a tough spot).
I don't see anyway I can not fold to the button raise, although I did toy with just jamming my stack. I'm figuring most likely holding is QQ or JJ that hopes someone will punt with a flush/OESD/both or even 55. I don't think there was enough money already in the pot to gamble my whole stack?
Either way I think folding is right... but was I one or two spots late in binning my cards?
Comments
Your not really getting the right odds on the flush draw alone, but against hand range of AdKd, AdJd, JJ+, JQ and AQ you are about 45% equity. So for me it's a +ev (+1.8) call if we can assign that range. And I think this is his likely range (except JQ) given preflop action. And taking JQ off is better for our odds in case you wonder.
Can't fold pre imo, no point raising the flop, and when someone raises 2x the pot 4way here we are just in SUCH bad shape. We have no FE v that villian and the best case scenario is probably AKdd but way more often than not this will be a set imo.
Guess it's a choice and an opinion, but I just can't limit their range that tight at this buiin level, as you'll gte exactly the same thing from people with AA or KK as well very often because they won't want to give it up or play it carefully.
Think you have played it fine.
Like flatting the flop.
As played it's a fold, mainly because we have 0 fold equity.
Just jamming and taking a effective flip is not good cash game stategy imo.
£9 call into£15 pot is +£1.3 ev against a range limited to JJ+. Sure sometimes it will be a set, but you can bet at this level some of the time it will be KK/AA as well, and maybe other hands as well. Absolute fold if even money call though. Not sure what the heck people are talking about fold equity for when it's a choice of call or fold. Or are you talking about the fold equity villian has?
I think it is fair to put the villain on all big pairs JJ+, AKdd and maybe even as little as AdKx/AdQx?
I suppose then it comes down to the effect of rake, which I always struggle to factor into my thinking when I have plenty of time, let alone when I've got 15 seconds to click a button!
What equity do I need to have in a pot in order to justify a call? I mean, if I'm pure flipping here (50% equity), I have to fold because the rake will make the call -EV, right?
I struggle in the same way when someone makes the play to shove the river on a four- or five-straight board, which I'm 90% certain will be a split pot.
In short, I really need to find a simple way to factor in the impact of rake!
So, if it was just two people you'd still have a +ev call, if assuming just JJ+ as range. However if sky sees the whole pot has having 3+ in it would become -ev call. If it divides it, then it would get more complicated. Either way the rake at 10nl and down is pretty nasty.
Rake over 10nl is 5% with max of £1.00 for 2 players and £1.80 with 3+ players in pot. As is usual the higher limits you play the less effected by rake you are.
You would of course have to factor in points though as well, as to if you should worry about rake in your call choice. Earning enough points you get rakeback and money. And while I play a little on sky, I don't play enough to have worked all of this out. Certainly guys earning the big points and recieving 20%-30% rakeback plus the cash I doubt need bother with this math in their ev calculations.