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quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA

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  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited March 2014
    In Response to quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    which hand is most likely to crack AA? bonus prizes* if you can explain in why it is more likely to win than other similar hands * - there are no prizes
    Posted by chicknMelt
    56 sooted.......

    56 sooted can make more straights than the AA and AA cant make a bigger straight than the 56 as you are holding a 5 in your hand.

    That being said......Just because it's more likely to beat AA than any other hand, it doesn't mean to say it will that often.  Although i'm happy for everyone on the site to be calling me with their whole stack with 56s thinking they have the better hand :)

    I'm sure i'll win one or two races along the way :) 
  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    All in preflop id have to say the other AA then???
    Posted by shuv

    lol... i did forget to say you can't have AA too.

    fair enough tho, that does beat the hand I had in terms of equity.

    Assume you you can't also have AA...
  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    All in preflop id have to say the other AA then???
    Posted by shuv
    50% equity obviously, but surely its's nearly always a chop? ie the other AA doesn't get cracked.
  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    In Response to quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA : 56 sooted....... 56 sooted can make more straights than the AA and AA cant make a bigger straight than the 56 as you are holding a 5 in your hand. That being said......Just because it's more likely to beat AA than any other hand, it doesn't mean to say it will that often.  Although i'm happy for everyone on the site to be calling me with their whole stack with 56s thinking they have the better hand :) I'm sure i'll win one or two races along the way :) 
    Posted by POKERTREV

    BOOM

    and the reasons are spot on too.

    56 sooted is the only hand (other than 67) that can counterfit what would normally be a chopped pot -  A2345

    56 beats 67 because it is more likely to counterfit a set of Aces by hitting a straight



    HandEquityWinsTies
    AA77.50%7,941,00942,648
    5s6s22.50%2,290,16742,648
  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA : ooo, you on the right lines. but no
    Posted by chicknMelt
    Editted since, my second guess was pairs 66 to 99 of differing suits to the aces. eg two red nines vs two black aces.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2014
    I'm a little confused by the above though. It was obvious it needed to be a SC, something with 2 live cards for trips/2pr and one that didn't include cards that would overlap straights that the AA might make.....

    However, while AA can't make a better straight than 56s (excluding KQJTx obv), that's true of 67s. The only wheel AA can make would have to be on 2345x and 67 beats AA there as much as 56 does...

    Obv it's only a tiny % difference but I'm intrigued as to what that's made up of. I guess 56s has a blocker to AA making a straight so having it reduces the odds of AA making a straight but we don't mind it making a straight either way cos we'll ALWAYS have the better straight...
  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited March 2014
    Yeah, makes sense, well though out Trev.
  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    I'm a little confused by the above though. It was obvious it needed to be a SC, something with 2 live cards for trips/2pr and one that didn't include cards that would overlap straights that the AA might make..... However, while AA can't make a better straight than 56s (excluding KQJTx obv), that's true of 67s. The only wheel AA can make would have to be on 2345x and 67 beats AA there as much as 56 does... Obv it's only a tiny % difference but I'm intrigued as to what that's made up of. I guess 56s has a blocker to AA making a straight so having it reduces the odds of AA making a straight but we don't mind it making a straight either way cos we'll ALWAYS have the better straight...
    Posted by Lambert180
    what about the likelyhood of counterfitting a set of aces? i guess 56 is more likley than 67 and thats where the 0.03% comes from?

    edit---

    as trev points out below...every straight has a 5 or T in it, so its possible to hit more straights with 56 than 67, i guess that must also contribute to the 0.03%!
  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA : BOOM and the reasons are spot on too. 56 sooted is the only hand (other than 67) that can counterfit what would normally be a chopped pot -  A2345 56 beats 67 because it is more likely to counterfit a set of Aces by hitting a straight Hand Equity Wins Ties AA 77.50% 7,941,009 42,648 5s6s 22.50% 2,290,167 42,648
    Posted by chicknMelt
    Wiiiiiii - Back of the net :)

    I recall someone on the site saying "every straight we make has to have a 5 or a 10 in it" so this was my starting point, the rest was a little research, so unfortunately I can't profess to have known it or the reasons behind it straight away, but its certainly an interesting one.
  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited March 2014
    The 5 in the 56s blocks 25% of the possible wheels AA can make, that's what makes the difference.

    It means any two pairs or trips made by the 56 are slightly less likely to run into AA making a straight than say 67.
  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    The 5 in the 56s blocks 25% of the possible wheels AA can make, that's what makes the difference. It means two pairs and trips made by the 56 are slightly more likely to swerve a straight than say 67.
    Posted by GaryQQQ

    but if AA hits a wheel when you have 67, you still counterfit it anyway...
  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA : but if AA hits a wheel when you have 67, you still counterfit it anyway...
    Posted by chicknMelt
    Hmmm, very true, I'm getting brain ache now :)
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA : Hmmm, very true, I'm getting brain ache now :)
    Posted by GaryQQQ
    Always glad to help the discussion ;)
  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited March 2014
    The deciding factor I think is .....

    The AA can't make the lower straight without the 5 and as you are holding one of them then it is less likely the AA will hit the lower straight, making you a slight favourite.?
  • bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,722
    edited March 2014
    Think it's because 56s can beat A234x whereas 67 cannot?
  • bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,722
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    The deciding factor I think is ..... The AA can't make the lower straight without the 5 and as you are holding one of them then it is less likely the AA will hit the lower straight, making you a slight favourite.?
    Posted by POKERTREV
    No because as Chckn says we're happy for AA to make the low straight regardless of whether we hold 56 or 67 as we win in both cases.
  • POKERTREVPOKERTREV Member Posts: 9,607
    edited March 2014
    OK so 56 ties with AA 0.19% of the time whereas 67 only ties with AA 0.16% of the time giving 56 the 0.03% equity edge.

    Phew.....i'm with Gary....my brains fried :)
  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ Member Posts: 6,804
    edited March 2014

    The fact that trips and two-pairs made my 56s are slightly less likely to be beaten by a straight than those made by say 67s must slightly out-weigh the other factors and give that extra 0.03%.

  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    OK so 56 ties with AA 0.19% of the time whereas 67 only ties with AA 0.16% of the time giving 56 the 0.03% equity edge. Phew.....i'm with Gary....my brains fried :)
    Posted by POKERTREV
    but wouldnt you only get half of that equity, since your splitting the pot?
  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2014
    In Response to Re: quiz - which hand is most likely to crack AA:
    OK so 56 ties with AA 0.19% of the time whereas 67 only ties with AA 0.16% of the time giving 56 the 0.03% equity edge. Phew.....i'm with Gary....my brains fried :)
    Posted by POKERTREV
    but wouldnt you only get half of that equity, since your splitting the pot?
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