In Response to Re: pocket 6's call or fold? : Firstly, OP here is very likely a recreational player to the game that is still learning, so it's doubtful he has an edge against the table. Unless you have a v good tournament record then you should consider your edge against the rest of the field as minimal at best. (This applies to probably some others that have replied here) If we have a minimal edge against the field then it is vital we don't pass up on +ev oppertunities. A good players edge doesn't just come from outplaying someone post-flop but it comes from making correct mathematical decisions. If we are passing up on spots where we believe we have 60% equity yet our opponent is calling in spots where he has 60% equity then even though opponent might be worse post-flop, he's in fact going to be a better player because he's making all the correct mathematical decisions. As someone ^^ there said if there is a situation where we are deep stacked against 5 terrible players (preferably all passive) then by all means we can pass up on a 55% flip for our tournament life. Heck, I may reject a 65% flip on a table of 5 terrible passive players if it was for my tournament life. But these situations are very rare that they're not worth thinking about. If we were on a table of 5 terrble (but aggressive) players then there is no way you should pass up on a 65% spot. And in general I'd say it's almost always going to be bad for the majority of players to pass up on a spot that they believe they have 15% (possibly even 10%) more equity than the BE equity they need to call (ie. they need 45% for a call to be ev, meaning they have to call if they think they have 55% equity and certainly if they have 60% equity) In any tournament, you have to take some gambles along the way to win - getting it all in as a 70% fave 5 times leaves you with a 16% chance of winning all 5. Getting into 5 flips gives you just a 3% chance of winning all 5. I know which one I'd prefer!! Going back to this hand given the deep-stack structure I personally would want 60-65% equity at least to call it off. But I think majority of players should be looking at 55-60% equity. If you are regularly playing these tournaments and doubling your chip stack after an hour and a half without getting into flips then maybe you can consider having closer to 65% equity to call off a flip like this. But until that time don't be rejecting spots with 60% equity! Posted by F_Ivanovic
Also a +1 to fivanovic post. Your edge is probably not as big as you think. Also you reduce this edge when you make mathematically incorrect plays. You can maybe pass up on a very small percentage over break even call but that's it.
Also when people say their edge is worth more than 65%, how exactly do they calculate their percentage edge and what does it mean? Or do they just make it up?
Hand is a trivial fold Also a +1 to fivanovic post. Your edge is probably not as big as you think. Also you reduce this edge when you make mathematically incorrect plays. You can maybe pass up on a very small percentage over break even call but that's it. Also when people say their edge is worth more than 65%, how exactly do they calculate their percentage edge and what does it mean? Or do they just make it up? Posted by grantorino
The latter, it's mostly just guess work based on your experience. Suppose you've played on a bad/passive table 50 times in a sample you've mentally recorded and you've managed on average to double up 65% of the time then it might be fair to say you have an edge on these tables of at least 55% (can't really go any higher cause sample is prob to small) - but the bigger the sample size, the more certain you can say about how much edge you have playing on a table against these players. In this situation you can pass up on 55% flips early on because you know that in 40 mins time you'll have on average double the starting stack.
Like I said tho most people tend to over-estimate their edge and as we both pointed out part of the edge comes from making mathematically correct plays so if we pass up on too many of them especially against aggressive bad villains then we are going to be reducing our edge.
@ hhyftrftdr: I wasn't reffering to you if that's why you were sighing :P
Lmao snapppp fold wait for better spots. I dunno how u could call if blinds are small and you gt lots of chips even if you think he's tilting and shoving with anything u cnt call!!
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GG Ivan, wp.