Seems A dull question, but is this ALWAYS a snap call?

grantorino

I would be calling and being pretty happy about it even if he turns over AA.  Never folding readless

Take a note for sure, but it's not much use unless you know he doesn't do it with other big hands

alex1229

Id have spent my £70 quid im about to win before id even press the call button

Slipwater

Shoving 230 big blinds into a pot of 21 big blinds is rarely aces, and even if it is, you should almost always be happy to get it all in pre with kings anyway... whether it is right away, or goes raise-raise-raise-raise-all in.

CraigSG1

In Response to Re: Seems A dull question, but is this ALWAYS a snap call?:

Id have spent my £70 quid im about to win before id even press the call button
Posted by alex1229

Really? So we are 100% winning this hand? 

Also I can not believe you say this is NEVER aces. I have seen this play lots of times, often just open shoving with AA. It happens, and a lot more than you give credit for. Not saying it is right but it happens. 

I don't hate the fold at all, perfectly reasonable for how deep we are compared to what's invested. 

alex1229

In Response to Re: Seems A dull question, but is this ALWAYS a snap call?:

In Response to Re: Seems A dull question, but is this ALWAYS a snap call? : Really? So we are 100% winning this hand?  Also I can not believe you say this is NEVER aces. I have seen this play lots of times, often just open shoving with AA. It happens, and a lot more than you give credit for. Not saying it is right but it happens.  I don't hate the fold at all, perfectly reasonable for how deep we are compared to what's invested. 
Posted by CraigSG1

100% winning this hand? no dont be silly !!

120% 

K8LOU

Never folding !! if its aces its a cooler... I dont see why any1 would ship aces for value in this spot! maybe he was just a maniac, I have seen ppl play ak this way purely because they are not competent enough to play through the streets... SNAP and move on if its aces..... I think there is a case for folding kk pre but this spot is definatly not 1 of them!

daiw

If I put this madman on a hand it be ak. Iv seem them plays hands like that many times. 

neil1970

let me think have i ever folded KK pre.......hmmmmmm NOOOOOOOOO.....

Matt237

Surely AA is never shoving this 

Snapping that call button.

mrsduck

Yesterday I shoved in a similar hand, not exactly the same tho.
This is why I shoved KK -
I wanted to re-raise to around £24 when I realised TDs stack is around £42, would he call off half his stack? would he re-raise all in when my raise was so strong? What would look weaker to him?

If he just called would I be able to get the other £18 off him if the board was low? Should an A come would I still get it all in?

Shoving all in looks weak and it's psychologically easier to press call on an all in rather than have to re-raise all in or call knowing/thinking someone was strong.
TD had joined the table about 10 hands before and in those hands I had raised and won pre-flop maybe 5 times, so I was hoping he would think I was a LAG.
So what did he put me on when I shoved. I was hoping a frustrated 66/77/88/99/1010/JJ or a chancer with A10/AJ/AQ.

but I would have snap called in your hand
My KK hand below -

mrsduck

TommyD	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£48.50
shomrat	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£14.50
	Your hole cards	K K
mrsduck	Raise		£1.50	£2.25	£68.47
Die_hard	Fold
nmipeis	Call		£1.50	£3.75	£58.87
TommyD	Raise		£6.75	£10.50	£41.75
shomrat	Fold
mrsduck	All-in		£68.47	£78.97	£0.00
nmipeis	Fold
TommyD	All-in		£41.75	£120.72	£0.00
mrsduck	Unmatched bet		£21.22	£99.50	£21.22
TommyD	Show	A Q
mrsduck	Show	K K
Flop
		10 2 J
Turn
		Q
River
		J
mrsduck	Win	Flush to the King	£97.70		£118.92

IHadTrips7

I call here pre and be reasonably happy, I think there is too many spewy players on this site to fold kings here readless.

Duck I think your suggested 4 bet sizing in your hand of £24 is just way too big. After the standard 3 bet sizing of 9x I'd usually look to 4 bet to about 23-24x (or bigger if player is a complete station fish). Here he 3 bets 13.5 x from the small blind which looks reasonable as btn flatted and he's OOP. Imo a 4 bet by you to about £13.50-£14 is going to be a lot better vs an unknown in the long run.

Lambert180

Yeah Duck, as per above, it's no wonder you think 4betting to £24 would scare him off and make him think you're super strong/never folding, but that's cos it's way too big a 4bet size. Imo, given the action, I'd be 4betting to maybe £13.

As for the OP, I'm sighing a little and calling. I'm definitely not folding but don't be shocked to see AA from time to time imo (definitely don't think we can rule out AA as some are saying).

mrsduck

I was thinking that raising from £6.75 to around £24 would be good because it kinda mirrors his raise from £1.50 to £6.75 ie 4x bigger, or is that a daft thing to do? I'm not the bestest cash player around btw!! But that's how my brain was working here..! advice very welcome thanks!

Lambert180

Normally I think he'd 3bet to say £4.50 - £5, he's only gone bigger because there's been a call after the open. In turn we should go a bit bigger but not crazy.

As a general rule 100xBB deep in cash our sizes should be in the region of...

Open - 3xBB  (£1.50)
3bet  - 9-10xBB  (£4.50 - £5.00)
4bet  - 22xBB      (£11)

If we want to be able to 4bet light/4bet as a bluff sometimes, then 4betting to £24 just makes our bluffs WAY too expensive.

liamboi11

readless I think you gotta call

but in this spot and i`ve played this opponent before a few times they always seemed to have the nuts and when having nutty hands they always bet huge so I think in this spot vs that player you prob made the right fold imo but over the long run I would not be making a habit of folding kk pre vs others.