In Response to Re: Saturday nights on Sky Poker : Should we look at the figures for the daily £22deep? You know the one that is only on a couple of days a week now because of continuous overlay. I played it fairly regularly so I don't have an issue with deepstack MTTs, I do have an issue with overlay! Posted by MattBates
With all due respect, the poster was stating facts about a lower buy in deepstack that continually makes its guarantee. The deepstack that you have named came from the request from the higher BR players wanting a deepstack. The megastack, and afaik, the 8.15 deepstack (both £5.50 BI) are WELL supported by the micro players.
A mate of mine posted this elsewhere, not sure if it's 'allowed' for me to repost it for him, but the input is important to this thread imo so I will and if it's deemed wrong then someone can delete it... " Antes - think a lot of people found the Primo boring because the lack of antes encourages so little action. Same applies to the vast majority of freezeouts on the Sky tournament schedule. There's a reason BHs are so popular on Sky, and that trend isn' t the same across all sites - Bounties promote action, therefore creating the excitement for a lot of recreational players that is missing from regular freezeouts because of no antes. Same logic applies to Turbo Tuesday - being a Turbo forces action and makes the games exciting where other tournaments fail to do so because of less action created because of no antes. - EvilPingu." The solution isn't to change the structure imo, it's to add antes for the above reasons and to implement a better satellite structure. I think there should be 'steps' style SnG satellites running/available to run NON STOP, 24hr per day. They'll all be SnGs so zero risk of overlay from Sky's POV and every single one that runs is... 1) more rake for Sky 2) more seats into X event than they're currently getting without them. For this to work, Sky need to start giving tournament tokens from satellites instead of just regging you (or giving you cash if you're regged). People won't be able to play sats for cash anymore but alot of people that do that are proper grinders so will deffo end up using the tokens anyway so it's essentially the same as getting the cash. Obviously you'd set a fair but sensible time limit on the token, so maybe you have to use it within 30 days. So many positives to this idea and as far as I can see, literally ZERO negatives... 1) People (like me) that can't play around the 2pm - 7pm period miss virtually every satellite that runs on the site. I often want to play satellites but there are very few available when I'm logged in. So the SnGs mean you can play a satellite ANY TIME you want. 2) They're SnGs, so no risk of overlay, so zero risk to Sky even if they're a complete flop (which I very much doubt would happen) 3) Some people want to play X event but can't play a satellite on that day. For instance, I prefer to satellite into the £55 Primo really and wouldn't regularly BI direct, but I will never be able to satellite in because I don't play Saturday day times because I spend the time with the kids/family etc. If I could play a satellite on Friday night (or any night of the week) instead, then I'd do that, and have thus satellited in the day before hand because I can't do it on the day. The above might sound kinda like it's all about me, but I play on the site ALOT and these are just a few restraints I face, I'm sure people who have much less available time to play will be facing far more obstacles when it comes to them trying to satellite in. In short, it just offers way more flexibility to the players, lets people satellite in from much smaller amounts and try as much as they want, any time they want, so imo would hugely boost numbers all over the site. I have another point to make (although a few regs won't like it lol) about the BIs for mains being too big imo for the site as it is, but I'll save that for another post later. Posted by Lambert180
I love Paul's post. So much sense and it is a shame that when Sky do listen to a lot of feedback, this always seems to get ignored. Most people want antes but I don't think every tournament needs them, like BH's. Antes in freeze outs would definately get more people involved.
I would also love to play sats but a lot are on when I can't play and a lot enter you in during late reg when I want to be in from start. By doing the SNG version with tokens it opens up so many more options for players and you can do so many different versions. EG. 1 token can be equal to £1 buyin and you can accumulate these. So a lower stakes player can enter a £1 SNG and win 6 tokens or a mid stakes can play a £5 SNG and win £30 worth of tokens, etc. You can use these to buyin to any tournament.
+1 with most of Lamberts post. The only thing I disagree with is the BI being too much! They are fine as it is - they have mini main events for a reason to accomodate those for a smaller bankroll. Not only that but they have a variety of different BI's over the week.
I voted for the deepstack but regret doing that now. As much as I like a deepstack, we have the Super Roller on Sunday and that's fine enough by me. 9 max initially sounded interesting but it just cannot work without antes. I also prefer sky being 6 max. Turbo's are kind of fun and I never usually get to play Tuesday night's so I think another Turbo would be good. Don't know about the BI... I think £22 or £33 would be best.
As for Primo I'm not a fan of moving it back to Sunday.Love the Super Roller too much!
edit: Going back to ante's I'm not sure how much they are needed. 9 max - definitely, but 6 max not so much. The blinds already go around quickly enough that if people aren't getting involved their stacks are going to dwindle. I think ante's would just promote a shove fest much earlier.
In Response to Re: Saturday nights on Sky Poker : Dohhhhhhh and Matt Bates Have a look at the figures for the Megastack. I am 100% certain that Fridays Mega has bust it's guarantee EVERY WEEK without fail. And I'm 99% certain that the same applies to the Wednesday and Monday ones too. Dohhhhhhhh we get it you say it often enough but we're not all fans of turbos and you obviously won't be happy until all deepstacks are removed from the schedule. A full ring freezeout is an interesting idea but I'm torn between 2. Posted by FlyingDagg
Not all.
The micro ones do ok, anything above £5 buy in doesn't.
All 3 options in the opening post have a £33 buy in so using the success of £2 and £5 deep/megastacks isn't really relevant.
The performances of the £22 deepstack, the £55 primo and the old £33 'doublestack main' are much more significant when making this decision.
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It's really obvious how this thread will go unless Sky use some initiative and make a decision themselves.
1) The deepstack will win the vote comfortably.
2) The 'new' deepstack will go on to be a huge fail and taken off the schedule within a month.
Option B is basically the primo as it is now, with 3,000 extra chips.
In Response to Re: Saturday nights on Sky Poker : With all due respect, the poster was stating facts about a lower buy in deepstack that continually makes its guarantee. The deepstack that you have named came from the request from the higher BR players wanting a deepstack. The megastack, and afaik, the 8.15 deepstack (both £5.50 BI) are WELL supported by the micro players. Posted by MAXALLY
That's exactly the problem though. They are supported well by micro players because the BIs are small, but this is a discussion about a £33 main event.
Tbh, that option shouldn't even be in there imo. Discussing replacing a failing slow deepstack game with another slow deepstack game.... just makes no sense. The only difference being the BI, if that's genuinely gonig to make a big difference then just keep it as the Primo and drop the BI to £33 (like it used to be) but I don't think that'll fix the problem
+1 with most of Lamberts post. The only thing I disagree with is the BI being too much! They are fine as it is - they have mini main events for a reason to accomodate those for a smaller bankroll. Not only that but they have a variety of different BI's over the week. I voted for the deepstack but regret doing that now. As much as I like a deepstack, we have the Super Roller on Sunday and that's fine enough by me. 9 max initially sounded interesting but it just cannot work without antes. I also prefer sky being 6 max. Turbo's are kind of fun and I never usually get to play Tuesday night's so I think another Turbo would be good. Don't know about the BI... I think £22 or £33 would be best. As for Primo I'm not a fan of moving it back to Sunday.Love the Super Roller too much! Posted by F_Ivanovic
The reason behind this is partly down to the satellite issue.
To have regular MTTs at £33/£55/£110 BIs, they need a strong player base of people that are willing/happy to BI direct to those events.
How many players on here are regs when it comes to playing mains AND will BI direct (obv we aint counting some high stakes cash players that could easy afford it but don't play MTTs) to these games? How many dya think regularly BI every time to these £55+ events? 50 people maybe, 100 at a real push, across the entire site?
That means there's a huge reliance on satellites to meet guarantees and as it is, the satellite setup isnt very good which is why there's overlay in mains, or the overlay is outsourced to things like all-in sats which have overlay a lot of the time.
There's a reason that Turbo Tuesday has a HUGE field every week, cos recs can afford to take a punt for £11. Recs don't want to punt for £110, spent 4 hours playing a freezeout, bust at 00:30 and have not even made the money.
it's saturday night, i want action & i want it fast, a £22 turbo BH, 1 re-buy, with 3k stacks would most def enhance my evening. i also like tommys idea of a sunday 8pm primo with the roller starting an hour earlier...would def elevate the sunday grind schedule Posted by yoyo
like this idea
also like the idea of having the primo and roller on a sunday. I often missed the primo on a Saturday, just because thats when other people tend to want to do things. would deffo play it every sunday though as well as the roller if it moved.
it's saturday night, i want action & i want it fast, a £22 turbo BH, 1 re-buy, with 3k stacks would most def enhance my evening. i also like tommys idea of a sunday 8pm primo with the roller starting an hour earlier...would def elevate the sunday grind schedule Posted by yoyo
is that just a£22 all in sat tho julian.
I think they need to try something new. the full ring idea sounds good, but i doubt it working well without antes, im guessing putting antes in isnt quite as straight forward as we think.
It's nice to see such a sensible discussion going on, and though I personaaly may not agree with all the points put across, I find all have their individual merits. I have voted for the full ring even though I can't usually play on a saturday. It would be nice to see some introduced as you have to play more carefully in that format.
Talk was made about promoting action, and there are a few ways to do that like : 6max tables instead of full ring, smaller starting stacks, faster blind levels, steeper blind levels, bounties and antes are which come to mind.
Do we want tournies ending at 4-0 clock in the morning when people have to go work the next day, perhaps if it finished at about 12-00 clock you would get more entries. Perhaps friday ans Saturday should be slower structures and the rest of the week faster. The advantage of the faster tournies is there is a greater chance of more different people winning. It is important to get Bums on seats in these tournies, and I quite like the idea of sit and go's for tickets. Still keep the other qualifiers as is, but add Sit and go's and step ones, for tickets to say a £110,£55,£33,£11 tournie. These would have a long life and could be used to enter any tourne to the value of, and therefore people could collect a few when they have a bit of spare time, and use when required.
In Response to Re: Saturday nights on Sky Poker : is that just a£22 all in sat tho julian. I think they need to try something new. the full ring idea sounds good, but i doubt it working well without antes, im guessing putting antes in isnt quite as straight forward as we think. roller at 7 then primo at 8 sounds pretty good Posted by robert369
no not an all-in fest at all, all turbos start out as deepstacks!
def agree with others that introducing antes for a couple of main events would be a good step foprward
If I may ask Gary to the Q Cubed as custodian of the records for some info from memory, was there much overlay when the Primo used to run alongside a £220 7pm Roller a few years ago? From memory the 220 hit just over or just under it's £5k GTD on the whole but I can't remember how the Primo did, plus the Sat structure for the £220 was not as good as the Roller ones now.
As Elton said, Saturday night is alright for fighting. A good turbo structure to give everyone action on a Saturday night is the right idea imo. I also really like Yoyo's idea of going one rebuy for it.
To elaborate further on my Sunday idea, the minis. Still run the mini Roller and the mini Primo (7:30pm and 8:30pm respectively). It's very true that the smaller deepstacks are very popular where as anything £22 and over has historically struggled, aside form the Roller of course. Have double jackpot night and have those slower paced £5.50 and £11 MTTs for the smaller staked players as well as the jackpot hunters. I've said it a few times before but I think the Mini Roller is a great once a week 'Biggie' for the smaller bankrolled players, you can't over use it but one Sunday one would imo be perfect. And I know I may be a bit rich suggesting another jackpot opportunity as I am essentially asking for free money, however I don't think moving to eight from seven chances at it a week will up the payouts for SkyPoker that significantly compared to the popularity this may and I feel is likely to create.
also agree with comments on introducing a steps style satellite system...would def rejuvenate the sit and go lobby as well as increasing nos in the MTTs
it's saturday night, i want action & i want it fast, a £22 turbo BH, 1 re-buy, with 3k stacks would most def enhance my evening. i also like tommys idea of a sunday 8pm primo with the roller starting an hour earlier...would def elevate the sunday grind schedule Posted by yoyo
I assume its lines like this that let to all the little yoyo's!
+1 to Mr D's suggestion and I like Julians idea too.
I agree with yoyo; a steps style satellite system would definitely help both SnG's and increase numbers in the main events.
Personally, i would like to see both a deep stack and a 9man field for the main event, i currently feel that there should be 1 main event of each type, for example there are too many bounty hunters at the moment for my liking..
However, would love to see either a 9 man or deep stack main event this saturday
Would also love to see more 'bigger' tournaments on a sunday night, such as the suggested idea of a primo as well as the roller to enhance the sunday night grind, its quite annoying just to have two events (main and mini) to look forward to a night (i dont really like bounty hunters all that much).
Comments
I voted for the deepstack but regret doing that now. As much as I like a deepstack, we have the Super Roller on Sunday and that's fine enough by me. 9 max initially sounded interesting but it just cannot work without antes. I also prefer sky being 6 max. Turbo's are kind of fun and I never usually get to play Tuesday night's so I think another Turbo would be good. Don't know about the BI... I think £22 or £33 would be best.
The micro ones do ok, anything above £5 buy in doesn't.
All 3 options in the opening post have a £33 buy in so using the success of £2 and £5 deep/megastacks isn't really relevant.
The performances of the £22 deepstack, the £55 primo and the old £33 'doublestack main' are much more significant when making this decision.
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It's really obvious how this thread will go unless Sky use some initiative and make a decision themselves.
1) The deepstack will win the vote comfortably.
2) The 'new' deepstack will go on to be a huge fail and taken off the schedule within a month.
Option B is basically the primo as it is now, with 3,000 extra chips.
Turbo would be a good fun idea for the summer.
If the buy in was lowered, it would get a good number of players particpating. Like 400 plus i would say.
How many players on here are regs when it comes to playing mains AND will BI direct (obv we aint counting some high stakes cash players that could easy afford it but don't play MTTs) to these games? How many dya think regularly BI every time to these £55+ events? 50 people maybe, 100 at a real push, across the entire site?
is that just a£22 all in sat tho julian.
or BH £22 or Turbo £22
rekon either you'll get the numbers
As Elton said, Saturday night is alright for fighting. A good turbo structure to give everyone action on a Saturday night is the right idea imo. I also really like Yoyo's idea of going one rebuy for it.
To elaborate further on my Sunday idea, the minis. Still run the mini Roller and the mini Primo (7:30pm and 8:30pm respectively). It's very true that the smaller deepstacks are very popular where as anything £22 and over has historically struggled, aside form the Roller of course. Have double jackpot night and have those slower paced £5.50 and £11 MTTs for the smaller staked players as well as the jackpot hunters. I've said it a few times before but I think the Mini Roller is a great once a week 'Biggie' for the smaller bankrolled players, you can't over use it but one Sunday one would imo be perfect. And I know I may be a bit rich suggesting another jackpot opportunity as I am essentially asking for free money, however I don't think moving to eight from seven chances at it a week will up the payouts for SkyPoker that significantly compared to the popularity this may and I feel is likely to create.
+1 to Mr D's suggestion and I like Julians idea too.