In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : you are an experienced player yes? give me your opinion based on reply i just gave to silentbob.once again why do a few of you keep on twisting everything? Posted by dav1964
Dav - I've explained that already!
Let's just move on, eh? Phrase the questions "just so" & nobody will twist anything. Please see my previous Posts.
sky rich do you think you could close this discussion as not a single person has bothered to give me any information that i was after from experienced poker players.i asked a question but nobody seems to want to give me any information at all.i thought i could get answers to a question from people with years and years of poker behind them but i dont think anybody actually even understood the thread.thank you in advance.dav
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : silentbob,please i wanted opinions on what peoples thinking usually is when they make these plays.most of today i was observing others after i had folded.i could see that the player in question would lose but they could not seem to see it themselves.so i wanted peoples views.dav Posted by dav1964
Fair enough dav, that actually makes more sense now. If you take a step back and read your OP along with the thread title maybe you can see why I've replied how I did?
Anyhow, to the question, you seem like quite an experienced player yourself so you can probably see some/most of these situations coming a mile off. Maybe the player(s) in question are still (relatively) new to the game and will make these mistakes. Generally not plays I make myself (unless I feel I have a good read on my opponent) as I always get a bit nervous when overcards/straightening/flushing boards come to my pocket pair and I'm quite happy to fold them. Maybe some people are just complete non believers?
IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav Posted by dav1964
ok fair enough dav i understand now... you just want a response to your original post so here's mine: yes i see it most of the time and i love it. People are often unable to let go of weak hands... it can sometimes be funny but you have to remember a lot of players are inexperienced or just want to play for fun without spending time learning the game. that better?
In my experience dave, they are non-believers--- they simply refuse to believe you have hit the flop, the odds tell them they are right to not believe you, and they think you are trying to bluff them off their pair of fives. They hav'nt yet thought of re-raising you, just to check if you are bluffing, so they just call and hope that you are, thing is, with a non-believer, the bigger the bet, the more they think you are bluffing. They seem to think that poker is a bluffing game, and that most hands are won by the best bluffer, and not the best hand----as tikay has said before---"brawn over brain"----they think you have the brawn, and they have the brain---lol---they do learn, I have seen them learn, but it takes time, and a few hundred quid
IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav Posted by dav1964
Hi Dave, yes i have noticed that some players do overvalue pocket pairs and call a lot when they are behind. The overall numbers of these types of players fluctuate and as some improve, others leave the site and more join! If you have noticed an increase then possibly there is! Happy days:)
Some obervations:
These players are either new to the game or simply dont believe and think people are always bluffing.
These players will lose long term until such a time that they learn to find the fold button. Luckily for profitable players like my self, some people never seem to learn this basic skill.
It is harder to get a read from these players because they call with hands that many players would insta fold. One thing i have learnt is that it is very important not to lose control of a pot vs these players. Also avoid taking coin flips. Also once they rereaise or start to bet big, its usually time to get folding. Also avoid bluffing. But as far as i am concerned they can call away without a decent hand or without the odds as much as they like imo. Its the way that i stay afloat!
Thank you very much for the views that some of you have,most of you agree that it is due to some players relative inexperience.Once again i apologise for any aggro that this topic has generated.
Now where is tikay?
Tikay it seems that WEBBY234 has an exemption certificate as he is apparently allowed to throw insults behind the comfort of his keyboard,RE he calls me a plonker.all the best.dav
sky rich do you think you could close this discussion as not a single person has bothered to give me any information that i was after from experienced poker players.i asked a question but nobody seems to want to give me any information at all.i thought i could get answers to a question from people with years and years of poker behind them but i dont think anybody actually even understood the thread.thank you in advance.dav Posted by dav1964
soz to see you down my old m8y,
but the fish will always be there m8,
nothing worse i know when they get lucky and hook us instead,
it hurts and i know a lot of posts seem to have got to you ,
but as kofi tk annan said , [tk is most likely a lot older than kofi lol ]
if you roll with it,
debate yes but not attack the opinions it generates,
Thank you very much for the views that some of you have,most of you agree that it is due to some players relative inexperience.Once again i apologise for any aggro that this topic has generated. Now where is tikay? Tikay it seems that WEBBY234 has an exemption certificate as he is apparently allowed to throw insults behind the comfort of his keyboard,RE he calls me a plonker.all the best.dav Posted by dav1964
I completely agree with you Dav - nobody should be allowed to throw insults around. Quite why the Mods allow it is a complete mystery to me, & it saddens me greatly, but all I can do is the same as anyone else - use the Report Abuse Button, & wring my hands in despair at why it's necessary to be so aggro to one another.
Feel free to ask the question of Sky-Rich, as I have no authority in such matters whatsoever.
You a Radiohead fan? They did a track called "Paranoid Android", & it had (something like) this line in it...... "When I'm King, you'll be first against the wall". They'd need a whopping great wall, I tell you. Speak tomorrow, have a good night.
hey guys, i have had to delete a couple of posts from this thread as they broke the house rules. dav + tikay, yes you are both correct, personal abuse is unacceptable and warnings/ action will take place via private messaging. thank you for your patience with this. Rich Posted by Sky_Rich
well once again sky rich,
you have shown yourself to be the back bone of skypoker forum,
i know its your job,
but i must say you are a top moderator,
i am sure if there was a vote for the topman in this forum,
In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : well once again sky rich, you have shown yourself to be the back bone of skypoker forum, i know its your job, but i must say you are a top moderator, i am sure if there was a vote for the topman in this forum, for both posters and mods, you would come out tops. over and out roborover ! Posted by IRISHROVER
IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav Posted by dav1964
In asnwer to the question, its because you are playing 1, 2 and £5 tournaments, now im not saying you should play above that if its outside of your bankroll comfort zone, but lower stakes like this you need to expect bad play. But at theend of the day you want people to play like this because they are the players that will double you up at the vital time. If you see them on a cash table just keep following them.
IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav Posted by dav1964
Hi Dav, I would say I'm a fairly inexperienced player, only having started playing in March 09. Usually, I think (and hope) that I lay my hand down when I "know" I'm beaten but now and again I go all the way even when I am fairly sure I know what the OP has got and I know he's beating me. 6 or 7 times out of ten I am, sadly, correct and my chips go over the table but 3 or 4 times out of ten I find he is trying it on and just trying to get me off my hand. I rarly play cash so my experience is neary all in the MTTs where, I suspect, there is a lot more bluffing going on. Probably the bluff ratio in the low stakes MTTs is nearer 20% than 10%. I have also seen some "players" calling all in on the river with complete air! A couple of days ago I had J T on a J high flop and then hit T on the turn. I bet PF, flop, turn and river and called called al the way by Ax! i can only assume the OP either thought I had nothing or she was under the influence of psychadelic drugs. Is this a useful reply?
Hi Dave. I see the problem in 2 ways, and yes there are a lot of muppet calls. There have been a lot of muppet calls for about 4 years now. In fact ever since the online game really took off.
In stt's the bad callers will hit but overall you want them to make those calls. A 6 seater with 3 muppets is good not bad. You will win on more tables than you lose on.
Mtt's are something different. Given an even spread of muppets throughout the tournament you might expect the same ratio as in the stt's. The big difference is that you can get through table after table of muppets but it only takes one to get lucky to destroy your chances or take you out. The odds are not in your favour to get past them all. The best way to avoid this is to be passive for the early stages and get involved later when a large percentage of muppets have gone back to muppetland.
I understand your frustration but it's the nature of the game nowadays. Long gone are the days of expecting to cash in every mtt. I've been dabbling in cash games recently (something I never used to do) and the muppets there are much less of a problem. the odds will get them eventually.
When the site starts the rebuy mtts that will cause different problems but I prefer my chances of doing well in rebuys against a field of many muppets.
Thanks again to the rest of you who have given your opinions,and there seems to be a general reason.Still a couple of replys though that keep seeming to think i am losing hands so once more my question related to my observations at tables,i was hardly ever in one of these hands as i had already folded.thanks again dav
Comments
Let's just move on, eh? Phrase the questions "just so" & nobody will twist anything. Please see my previous Posts.
Anyhow, to the question, you seem like quite an experienced player yourself so you can probably see some/most of these situations coming a mile off. Maybe the player(s) in question are still (relatively) new to the game and will make these mistakes. Generally not plays I make myself (unless I feel I have a good read on my opponent) as I always get a bit nervous when overcards/straightening/flushing boards come to my pocket pair and I'm quite happy to fold them. Maybe some people are just complete non believers?
TBH, I really don't know the answer, lol!
I think I know when I'm beat.
No further questions M'Lord.
yes i see it most of the time and i love it. People are often unable to let go of weak hands... it can sometimes be funny but you have to remember a lot of players are inexperienced or just want to play for fun without spending time learning the game. that better?
Hi Dave, yes i have noticed that some players do overvalue pocket pairs and call a lot when they are behind. The overall numbers of these types of players fluctuate and as some improve, others leave the site and more join! If you have noticed an increase then possibly there is! Happy days:)
Some obervations:
These players are either new to the game or simply dont believe and think people are always bluffing.
These players will lose long term until such a time that they learn to find the fold button. Luckily for profitable players like my self, some people never seem to learn this basic skill.
It is harder to get a read from these players because they call with hands that many players would insta fold. One thing i have learnt is that it is very important not to lose control of a pot vs these players. Also avoid taking coin flips. Also once they rereaise or start to bet big, its usually time to get folding. Also avoid bluffing. But as far as i am concerned they can call away without a decent hand or without the odds as much as they like imo. Its the way that i stay afloat!
Hope this helps
Greg
Now where is tikay?
Tikay it seems that WEBBY234 has an exemption certificate as he is apparently allowed to throw insults behind the comfort of his keyboard,RE he calls me a plonker.all the best.dav
but the fish will always be there m8,
nothing worse i know when they get lucky and hook us instead,
it hurts and i know a lot of posts seem to have got to you ,
but as kofi tk annan said , [tk is most likely a lot older than kofi lol ]
if you roll with it,
debate yes but not attack the opinions it generates,
it works better this way,
always your m8,
over and out roborover
Feel free to ask the question of Sky-Rich, as I have no authority in such matters whatsoever.
You a Radiohead fan? They did a track called "Paranoid Android", & it had (something like) this line in it......
"When I'm King, you'll be first against the wall".
They'd need a whopping great wall, I tell you.
Speak tomorrow, have a good night.
i have had to delete a couple of posts from this thread as they broke the house rules.
dav + tikay, yes you are both correct, personal abuse is unacceptable and warnings/ action will take place via private messaging.
thank you for your patience with this.
Rich
you have shown yourself to be the back bone of skypoker forum,
i know its your job,
but i must say you are a top moderator,
i am sure if there was a vote for the topman in this forum,
for both posters and mods,
you would come out tops.
over and out roborover !
thank you for your kind words irishover.
(the cheques in the post... sssssh)
Is this a useful reply?
I see the problem in 2 ways, and yes there are a lot of muppet calls. There have been a lot of muppet calls for about 4 years now. In fact ever since the online game really took off.
In stt's the bad callers will hit but overall you want them to make those calls. A 6 seater with 3 muppets is good not bad. You will win on more tables than you lose on.
Mtt's are something different. Given an even spread of muppets throughout the tournament you might expect the same ratio as in the stt's. The big difference is that you can get through table after table of muppets but it only takes one to get lucky to destroy your chances or take you out. The odds are not in your favour to get past them all. The best way to avoid this is to be passive for the early stages and get involved later when a large percentage of muppets have gone back to muppetland.
I understand your frustration but it's the nature of the game nowadays. Long gone are the days of expecting to cash in every mtt. I've been dabbling in cash games recently (something I never used to do) and the muppets there are much less of a problem. the odds will get them eventually.
When the site starts the rebuy mtts that will cause different problems but I prefer my chances of doing well in rebuys against a field of many muppets.