Why Can't I Play Cash???

KnackersYa

I would consider myself to be a pretty reasonable tourney player but:

Why am I such an überdonk on cash games?

FlutNush

Because you're playing too tight and waiting for premium hands and two pairs, when any old drivel will do in cash?

Just a guess there, as it's difficult to say without knowing your style or what specific problems you're encountering... can you give more details?

überdonk; love that.

KnackersYa

I'm struggling to put players on a hand. It's pretty easy in tourneys but, when people are playing any two cards, it becomes a problem. Maybe I'm playing a bit scared which is never a problem in tourneys, no matter what the buy in.

Or maybe I just don't have the skill set for cash?

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Why Can't I Play Cash???:

I would consider myself to be a pretty reasonable tourney player but: Why am I such an überdonk on cash games?
Posted by KnackersYa

Few people are able to be great at both. Do you change your game to play cash? do you change the range you put others on during cash play? remember nobody is trying to preserve their tournament life. If the get felted they can reload and go again. This means they can see flops with hands they wouldn't in tourney play. Due to the implied odds of felting you if it hits then you will be called by a lighter holding pre flop than in tournies

DOHHHHHHH

Because its alot harder basically!

Ur not the only one fella, they say some tournys have like a deep structure with plenty of play, this is the case in a cash game session, but its also the same in 1 single cash game hand!

Because the stacks r so big in relation to the blinds, theres pre flop action, flop action, and then still plenty of money/chips behind for action on the turn and river.

In tournys (regular 10 minit format..), its pretty much pre flop and flop stuff (unless its very early stages) - then the players r near enough committed to the hand.

Ive learnt to play poker on the cash tables, then transferred the skills I learnt there over to tournies,(occasionally) - I havent really had any problems doing this other than the issue of patience - and the whole tourny concept annoys me as you can play faultlessly for 4 hours then lose on an inevitable flip.

What level r u playing?

I rekon its just a question of practise and adapting as u go - also every level of cash is different, Ive recently had to change my game to adapt to a lower level. - took me 3-4 sessions before I started winning.

GL, DOHH

KnackersYa

Thanks for the input guys, it's given me a new perspective. So like my dad told me....

"If at first you don't succeed.....give up!".

Seriously though, I think I'm playing too scared. Need to up the bankroll by a fair few quid before I take a serious stab at the old cash. No real point playing on 2p/4p (it's a total madhouse).

DeuceAK_47

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

I'm struggling to put players on a hand. It's pretty easy in tourneys but, when people are playing any two cards, it becomes a problem. Maybe I'm playing a bit scared which is never a problem in tourneys, no matter what the buy in. Or maybe I just don't have the skill set for cash?
Posted by KnackersYa

Cash is a much more advanced game in my opinion so it takes a longtime to master.

If you dont play deep stack tournys i would advise you to play them as i think it makes the transition alot easier.

Try not to give up as it will make you a much overall better player.

Gl mate

FlashFlush

With a cash game, like you said as people sit so deepstacked they are not afraid to call with junk, this is not a donk play, just watch the high stakes poker and see what the pro's play with. I would say you need to bet stronger in cash, a 3x raise in MTTs is standard but in cash thats quite a weak bet, 4 or 5 times is generally the norm to get the total junk out of the way. Practice reading the board textures, if you raise 4x pre with 88 and get 2 callers and flops A,K,J chances are you are behind, where as if the board is J,5,3 and your faced with a bet. Reraise strong, really put your opponent to the test. You can always reload your stack if you mis-read a hand unlike in MTTs.

You will sit with the same players for a long time, unlike in MTTs where you get moved alot. Watch the players, who is tight? Who is in alot of pots, also bet sizes is the biggest give away, if a player bets pot size when he is very strong, wait for that half pot bet and re-raise him. Make notes on players as well so next time you see them you dont start from square 1 again.

Also you said you might be playing "Scared Poker". Make sure you are sitting very comfortable in relation to your bankroll. I sit on cash with about 15-20 pullups, im not saying im going to use all those, at most probs 2 or 3. This way losing £20 of your £300 doesn't matter as much.

Goodluck

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

Because you're playing too tight and waiting for premium hands and two pairs, when any old drivel will do in cash? Just a guess there, as it's difficult to say without knowing your style or what specific problems you're encountering... can you give more details? überdonk; love that.
Posted by FlutNush

I've seen advice that in cash you should stay patient and wait for preium hands and now I'm reading advice that you should play with "any old drivel"! Do both schools of thought work? Is there basically option 1 only playing premium hands PF and playing aggressive and option 2 playing any 2 cards PF and, when you hit playing very aggressive?

Talon

 There is no 1 right or wrong style to play in cash and you can do it anyway you want.The best bits of advice i can think of are these.
1) Do not be predictable
2) play loose or tight but the opposite to the rest of the table
3) identify weaker players that are susceptible to your moves
4) make sure you pay lots of attention to the other players so as to get as many reads as possible
5) do not save your big bet of the hand til the river, the turn is a better place to get paid off
6) have fun

kalooki8

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

With a cash game, like you said as people sit so deepstacked they are not afraid to call with junk, this is not a donk play, just watch the high stakes poker and see what the pro's play with. I would say you need to bet stronger in cash, a 3x raise in MTTs is standard but in cash thats quite a weak bet, 4 or 5 times is generally the norm to get the total junk out of the way. Practice reading the board textures, if you raise 4x pre with 88 and get 2 callers and flops A,K,J chances are you are behind, where as if the board is J,5,3 and your faced with a bet. Reraise strong, really put your opponent to the test. You can always reload your stack if you mis-read a hand unlike in MTTs. You will sit with the same players for a long time, unlike in MTTs where you get moved alot. Watch the players, who is tight? Who is in alot of pots, also bet sizes is the biggest give away, if a player bets pot size when he is very strong, wait for that half pot bet and re-raise him. Make notes on players as well so next time you see them you dont start from square 1 again. Also you said you might be playing "Scared Poker". Make sure you are sitting very comfortable in relation to your bankroll. I sit on cash with about 15-20 pullups, im not saying im going to use all those, at most probs 2 or 3. This way losing £20 of your £300 doesn't matter as much. Goodluck
Posted by FlashFlush

Great advice Flash - will take heed myself

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

 There is no 1 right or wrong style to play in cash and you can do it anyway you want.The best bits of advice i can think of are these. 1) Do not be predictable 2) play loose or tight but the opposite to the rest of the table 3) identify weaker players that are susceptible to your moves 4) make sure you pay lots of attention to the other players so as to get as many reads as possible 5) do not save your big bet of the hand til the river, the turn is a better place to get paid off 6) have fun
Posted by Talon

Cool, thanks. Well, I dont even know what I'm going to do myself till after I've done it so number 1 is easy!!!!!

philmenow

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : I've seen advice that in cash you should stay patient and wait for preium hands and now I'm reading advice that you should play with "any old drivel"! Do both schools of thought work? Is there basically option 1 only playing premium hands PF and playing aggressive and option 2 playing any 2 cards PF and, when you hit playing very aggressive?
Posted by Seagull158

dont play 2 much cash myself as my bankroll is so small,but when i do at low levels,its a bigger donkfest than freerolls,people call with junk and then call,call,call,so even when you get a premium hand its more often than not gonna get outdrawn,so figure if ur gonna play,uv got 2 play drivel like the rest and hope you're lukkier than them.

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : dont play 2 much cash myself as my bankroll is so small,but when i do at low levels,its a bigger donkfest than freerolls,people call with junk and then call,call,call,so even when you get a premium hand its more often than not gonna get outdrawn,so figure if ur gonna play,uv got 2 play drivel like the rest and hope you're lukkier than them.
Posted by philmenow

Right, I'm not bothering with the 2p/4p anymore. I'm going straight to the £2/£4. Who wants a game?

Action_Dan

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : I've seen advice that in cash you should stay patient and wait for preium hands and now I'm reading advice that you should play with "any old drivel"! Do both schools of thought work? Is there basically option 1 only playing premium hands PF and playing aggressive and option 2 playing any 2 cards PF and, when you hit playing very aggressive?
Posted by Seagull158

There's massive difference to playing ''any old drivel'' which is generally bad (tournaments or cash) than playing ''speculative'' hands like suited connectors that can connect on flops and win massive pots! Generally in tournaments, you'll never be deep enough (other than early levels) to be able to speculate with drawing hands pre-flop because you're waiting for better spots and preserving your tournament life but in cash, you're able to call raises with 6 7 suited to try and hit decent flop because you know if you miss, you've still got 90BB left and/or ability to reload! 

So whilst taking everyone's advice on board, I'd also say don't think of playing ''any old drivel'' like 9 4 off in hope of hitting miracle flops but instead open your range to include hands that can genuinely hit flops and improve! Being aware that others are playing these hands can help define their range aswell so adapt accordingly...mixing these with your premium hands will benefit your game no end and especially at lower stakes, you'll find people who play against your Aces with 9 4 and hit 2 5 9 flop, can't let their hands go so that's where you'll make your money!

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : Right, I'm not bothering with the 2p/4p anymore. I'm going straight to the £2/£4. Who wants a game?
Posted by Seagull158

Me Please

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : There's massive difference to playing ''any old drivel'' which is generally bad (tournaments or cash) than playing ''speculative'' hands like suited connectors that can connect on flops and win massive pots! Generally in tournaments, you'll never be deep enough (other than early levels) to be able to speculate with drawing hands pre-flop because you're waiting for better spots and preserving your tournament life but in cash, you're able to call raises with 6 7 suited to try and hit decent flop because you know if you miss, you've still got 85BB left or ability to reload! So whilst listening to Talon's etc advice aswell, I'd also say don't think of playing ''any old drivel'' in hope of hitting miracle flops but instead open your range to include hands that can hit flops and improve massively! Being aware that others are playing these hands can help define their range aswell so you should be able to adapt accordingly...
Posted by Action_Dan

Thanks Dan. Thats what I have been speculating with recently, suited connectors, even low ones, and sometimes suited 1 gap connectors. I haven't played enough cash to hone that approach yet and I recognise that bluffing when you miss at the low level tables is a quick way to lose all your money.

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : Me Please
Posted by ACESOVER8s

You're the first taker. I thought I would gets floods of replies within 5 or 10 minutes!!!!!

Action_Dan

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash??? : Thanks Dan. Thats what I have been speculating with recently, suited connectors, even low ones, and sometimes suited 1 gap connectors. I haven't played enough cash to hone that approach yet and I recognise that bluffing when you miss at the low level tables is a quick way to lose all your money.
Posted by Seagull158

Yeah it's generally accepted on here that 2p/4p tables are easy to conquer if you play ABC poker and bet your hands accordingly - you don't really need to bluff so wait until you've got them crushed and keep betting because they're calling stations! I've just started playing again after little break and dropped down levels to 2p/4p to get my eye in - over the last few days I've been called down on four flushing board with top pair and the like so it's just about hitting your hands and getting paid off! Good luck - look forward to seeing you do well...

BlackFish3

In Response to Re: Why Can't I Play Cash???:

Thanks for the input guys, it's given me a new perspective. So like my dad told me.... "If at first you don't succeed.....give up!". Seriously though, I think I'm playing too scared. Need to up the bankroll by a fair few quid before I take a serious stab at the old cash. No real point playing on 2p/4p (it's a total madhouse).
Posted by KnackersYa

if you cant beat the lowest stakes then what can you beat? start at the bottom and move up.

lJAMESl

I don't know?! Perhaps give us some info on... Your playing style? Stakes you play? Do you have awareness of position? Good bankroll management?

Understand cash is game mainly played at 100 big blinds deep this allows alot more room for play and more skillfull advanced and experiences players thrive on deep stack poker, unlike in an MTT where you will eventually forced to shove your whole stack in as the blinds increase. Players that are good at Tournaments are usually too tight for cash games and end up playing their hands face up, becoming easy to read and never really getting out of there comfort zone.

Do any of these apply to yourself?

James