We have all seen & read, way too many times, that ridiculous expression.... "show me a good loser, & I'll show you a loser". It is, of course, utter nonsense. Yesterday, elsewhere, I saw a Post by a pal of mine called Stu Barnett, who many of you may have met at UKPC last week, where he had a deep run or two. He adapted that cliche into a much better version. ".....To be a winner at poker you must be very good at losing...." Posted by Tikay10
Most successful Male player in the World = Phil Hellmuth? Most successful Female player in the World = Vanessa Selbst? Probably numbers 1 and 2 on the 'Worst losers' list. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Is RIGHT......but WRONG.
They are both Poker Pros, poker is their JOB. Jobs are stressful sometimes.
On Sky Poker, 99.5% of the players - more maybe? are NOT poker pros, they play poker as a recreation.
"Recreation", as in tending an allotment, playing crown green bowls, fishing, watching movies. If any of those recreations caused us to behave like a nimcompoop, we'd not do them, as we play for fun.
How we react to winning & losing defines us us people, & poker is very good at exposing our true character.
In Response to Re: Challenge the nonsense. : Is RIGHT......but WRONG. They are both Poker Pros, poker is their JOB. Jobs are stressful sometimes. On Sky Poker, 99.5% of the players - more maybe? are NOT poker pros, they play poker as a recreation. "Recreation", as in tending an allotment, playing crown green bowls, fishing, watching movies. If any of those recreations caused us to behave like a nimcompoop, we'd not do them, as we play for fun. How we react to winning & losing defines us us people, & poker is very good at exposing our true character. Posted by Tikay10
It doesn't really apply to me as I'm too laid back to get aggro about it when things don't go my way (in all fields of life), but plenty of other recreations cause way worse anger issues than a few snide comments in a poker chatbox.
Head down to watch any local Sunday league football game and you'll soon appreciate what I mean!!
Not sure it even detracts from their fun. I think the angry guys wouldn't enjoy these activities as much if it they didn't get the blood pumping and emotions fluctuating.
In fact, in many ways it's probably an extension of your point about Hellmuth and Selbst. The recs have had to bite their tongue in front of colleagues, the visiting mother-in-law, the noisy kids - meaning that the poker tables feel like a safer environment to release that pent up stress / anger.
In Response to Re: Challenge the nonsense. : Is RIGHT......but WRONG. They are both Poker Pros, poker is their JOB. Jobs are stressful sometimes. On Sky Poker, 99.5% of the players - more maybe? are NOT poker pros, they play poker as a recreation. "Recreation", as in tending an allotment, playing crown green bowls, fishing, watching movies. If any of those recreations caused us to behave like a nimcompoop, we'd not do them, as we play for fun. How we react to winning & losing defines us us people, & poker is very good at exposing our true character. Posted by Tikay10
Not sure i agree. I would poker is more of a sport than a recreation. In sport the reason why we play and watch these hobbies is for the competition (vs our opponents and ourselves) and the highs and lows that go with success and failure. Anger is a natural by product of such hobbies. Our ability to control this anger defines us as a competitor.
Our true character can be completely different. For instance outside of competitive sports/hobbies im as chilled out and as easy going as they come but im a different animal once i can beat something or someone. I get annoyed and angry when i lose and im delighted and hapoy when i win. I enjoy the swings in emotion these hobbies bring. If i was unmoved win or lose i wouldnt play.
Below sums up my thoughts:
You must never be satisfied with losing. You must get angry, terribly angry, about losing. But the mark of the good loser is that he takes his anger out on himself and not his victorious opponents or on his teammates. Richard nixon
I'd guess the guy is trying to address the importance of understanding and dealing with the luck element in poker.
To win long term we often have to lose shot term. Even when playing perfectly.
Everyone will, regardless of ability.
If you can't deal with that, you will never become a long term winner.
Negative implications of failing to do so such as tilt and bad bankroll management are too powerful to overcome.
".....To be a winner at poker you must be very good at losing...."
He's looking at the relationship between a players ability to handle defeat in the short term and the likelihood of him achieving the longer term goal of becoming a winner.
So I very much doubt he's implying that people who pay for poker (lose) day in day out are good losers, because as long as poker success is measured by money won/lost (always), these guys will never become winners.
Of course you can argue that success can/(should?) be measured by more than just £$€, but that's a whole new thread.
But why do so many people seem to have so much pent up stress/anger? And why do they feel they can take it out on people they don't even know? Life is full of challenges. Being happy shouldn't be of them. Posted by FCHD
That is a great post, especially.....
Life is full of challenges. Being happy shouldn't be of them.
If poker makes you unhappy, you are doing something wrong.
We have all seen & read, way too many times, that ridiculous expression.... "show me a good loser, & I'll show you a loser". It is, of course, utter nonsense. Yesterday, elsewhere, I saw a Post by a pal of mine called Stu Barnett, who many of you may have met at UKPC last week, where he had a deep run or two. He adapted that cliche into a much better version. ".....To be a winner at poker you must be very good at losing...." Posted by Tikay10
Stu contacted me yesterday, after I told him I had borrowed his turn of phrase.
In fact, he tells me, it came from a new Poker Book, which is very different to most books on poker. Never mind A-K UTG, it does not bother with that stuff. This is about YOU, ME, US, how we play the game.
The book is entitled "ELEMENTS OF POKER", & is penned by Tommy Angelo.
Youi can read numerous reviews of it on 2+2, or simply google the name.
Warning - if you are a dedicated follower of poker fashion, & can't see beyond the fashionable terms & opinions we all copy, don't bother reading the book, or the review, its not for you.
And if you think poker "tilt" is acceptable, don't bother with the book. When did "tilt" ever have a beneficial effect on our game?
Of course we get a bit ruffled when we have a bad run, thats natural. It's how we handle it that matters, as we can't change the past.
It may be an age thing, but being proud of tilt is, well, I'll be polite, not a good thing.
The table was slow to load & I missed the first hand of the Roiller, it tilts me to death.
Give me a break......
On the other hand, if you don't mind challenging conventional wisdom, thinking outside the box, & different to the other 5 players on the table, this book is a great place to start making your poker more enjoyable, & maybe even more profitable. Or less lossable.
I have never read a book before, not even Harrington/sklansky and as a low stakes winning player I probably should.
I read a LOT of online stuff though, just figure the game is getting harder and harder as people hit a higher 'base level' that I need to work a lot harder now
Will do. I have never read a book before, not even Harrington/sklansky and as a low stakes winning player I probably should. I read a LOT of online stuff though, just figure the game is getting harder and harder as people hit a higher 'base level' that I need to work a lot harder now Posted by MrWh1te
Yes - & that's why I think players need to be prepared to open their minds to new approaches, instead of all following the regular stuff.
Will do. I have never read a book before, not even Harrington/sklansky and as a low stakes winning player I probably should. I read a LOT of online stuff though, just figure the game is getting harder and harder as people hit a higher 'base level' that I need to work a lot harder now Posted by MrWh1te
Comments
Hope this helps.
Pokerwise, i still agree long term.
They are both Poker Pros, poker is their JOB. Jobs are stressful sometimes.
On Sky Poker, 99.5% of the players - more maybe? are NOT poker pros, they play poker as a recreation.
"Recreation", as in tending an allotment, playing crown green bowls, fishing, watching movies. If any of those recreations caused us to behave like a nimcompoop, we'd not do them, as we play for fun.
How we react to winning & losing defines us us people, & poker is very good at exposing our true character.
After seeing the subject title, I thought this was gonna be about responding to TK's chatbox moments!
Anyhow, about a billion years ago, an athletics coach said to me "You need to learn from your failings, before you can learn how to win"
That sort of nails it I think.
Head down to watch any local Sunday league football game and you'll soon appreciate what I mean!!
Not sure it even detracts from their fun. I think the angry guys wouldn't enjoy these activities as much if it they didn't get the blood pumping and emotions fluctuating.
In fact, in many ways it's probably an extension of your point about Hellmuth and Selbst. The recs have had to bite their tongue in front of colleagues, the visiting mother-in-law, the noisy kids - meaning that the poker tables feel like a safer environment to release that pent up stress / anger.
Life is full of challenges. Being happy shouldn't be of them.
Richard nixon
Life is full of challenges. Being happy shouldn't be of them.
If poker makes you unhappy, you are doing something wrong.
In fact, he tells me, it came from a new Poker Book, which is very different to most books on poker. Never mind A-K UTG, it does not bother with that stuff. This is about YOU, ME, US, how we play the game.
The book is entitled "ELEMENTS OF POKER", & is penned by Tommy Angelo.
Youi can read numerous reviews of it on 2+2, or simply google the name.
Here is one review....
http://www.thinkingpoker.net/poker-book-reviews/elements-of-poker/
Or, you could visit Tommy Angelo's own website, where he describes the book's contents, & there are a few "soundbites" (written) too......
http://tommyangelo.com/table-of-contents/
Warning - if you are a dedicated follower of poker fashion, & can't see beyond the fashionable terms & opinions we all copy, don't bother reading the book, or the review, its not for you.
And if you think poker "tilt" is acceptable, don't bother with the book. When did "tilt" ever have a beneficial effect on our game?
Of course we get a bit ruffled when we have a bad run, thats natural. It's how we handle it that matters, as we can't change the past.
It may be an age thing, but being proud of tilt is, well, I'll be polite, not a good thing.
The table was slow to load & I missed the first hand of the Roiller, it tilts me to death.
Give me a break......
On the other hand, if you don't mind challenging conventional wisdom, thinking outside the box, & different to the other 5 players on the table, this book is a great place to start making your poker more enjoyable, & maybe even more profitable. Or less lossable.
Over & out.
I will read it, if it is as good as you say, I will buy a hard copy
thank you
OK, let us know what you think of it, & if it helps you challenge conventional wisdom, or helps your poker in any way.
I have never read a book before, not even Harrington/sklansky and as a low stakes winning player I probably should.
I read a LOT of online stuff though, just figure the game is getting harder and harder as people hit a higher 'base level' that I need to work a lot harder now
It's a sad, illiterate world these days