Cash game rules.

rayman77

Wonder if anyone can help with this.Blinds 25p/50. Last hand of the night. Player 1 under the gun goes all in for 160 pounds and says he has AK.He actually has AQ. Player 2 next to act goes all in for 100 pounds and says he has aces.He does have aces.2 people still to act who end up folding. BUT. An argument starts saying if player 1 or player 2 actually have what they say they have then their hand is dead as 2 players still to act.Your answers wud very much be appreciated.

salazar

In Response to Cash game rules.:

Wonder if anyone can help with this.Blinds 25p/50. Last hand of the night. Player 1 under the gun goes all in for 160 pounds and says he has AK.He actually has AQ. Player 2 next to act goes all in for 100 pounds and says he has aces.He does have aces.2 people still to act who end up folding. BUT. An argument starts saying if player 1 or player 2 actually have what they say they have then their hand is dead as 2 players still to act.Your answers wud very much be appreciated.
Posted by rayman77

As far as I know you are not allowed to give your true hand but you are allowed to lie and say you have something you don't. Sounds strange but those are the rules if I remember right. 

Doesn't really matter online and applies more to live games, no live dealer to tell you off when you're playing online.

seems like it played out the way it would have anyway, the guy with aces who was next to act wasn't folding no matter what player 1 said he had

rayman77

In Response to Re: Cash game rules.:

In Response to Cash game rules. : As far as I know you are not allowed to give your true hand but you are allowed to lie and say you have something you don't. Sounds strange but those are the rules if I remember right.  Doesn't really matter online and applies more to live games, no live dealer to tell you off when you're playing online. seems like it played out the way it would have anyway, the guy with aces who was next to act wasn't folding no matter what player 1 said he had
Posted by salazar

Appreciate your response, as far as you are aware shud the player with aces hand be declared dead ?

tosca21

In Response to Re: Cash game rules.:

In Response to Re: Cash game rules. : Appreciate your response, as far as you are aware shud the player with aces hand be declared dead ?
Posted by rayman77

it's a game of bluff and double bluff most of the time it's how you read the game and get to know your opponents

Uridium

I belive there are the "official" rules of poker which cover people declaring their hands but the casinos (specifically dealers) don't seem to enforce them. You can ask your poker room if they have a rule book, if there are no local written rules about what people say their hand is then anything goes. The only problem I see with people misrepresenting their hands is if they try to cheat at showdown by claiming they have a hand they don't with the intention of getting their opponents to muck before they show. It would always be the reponsibility of the players involved to ensure that the winner did actually have the hand they said they had as dealers can make mistakes. In summary don't muck your hand until you know you are beat as the other guy could be lying.

F_Ivanovic

You shouldn't say anything about your hand whilst there are other players still to act - if it's HU then I believe you're still not allowed to say your hand but can lie about it.

Phantom66

Generally accepted card room rules are:

Players may not verbally disclose the contents of their hand.

Players in hands cannot reveal their hole cards to convince other players to fold; if so, the player's cards are considered a dead hand.

Player 1 has not disclosed the content of his hand. Player 2 has - given they haven't actually shown them to the table the "reveal" hasn't happened until the other players yet to act muck and the 2 live players show their cards.

At that point I would say AA should have been declared dead.

Only enforceable if the rules were written down at the venue - there is no "official" single source rule book. Poker doesn't have a governing body).

In a home game - then good luck sorting it out - hope you can all stay friends!

Uridium

In Response to Re: Cash game rules.:
In my experiece of years of playing in casino cash games the dealers don't enforce those rules and most will be oblivious to them anyway, **** some even have to ask us to tell them what to do. I imagine that any player who called the floor management over to intervene in such situations would not make themselves very popular. It it were in a big tournament where serious cash was involved I can see that the rules would be enforced, but not at small stakes. 

Uridium

In Response to Re: Cash game rules.:

Only enforceable if the rules were written down at the venue - there is no "official" single source rule book. Poker doesn't have a governing body). In a home game - then good luck sorting it out - hope you can all stay friends!

Posted by Phantom66

There is actaully a governing body for poker the FIDPA, they have a website which contains their rules of poker, this is from the relevant section:

Verbal Declaration of Hand/Action In or Out of Turn 73.1

A verbal declaration as to the content of a player’s hand is NOT binding - 'Cards speak for themselves.'

73.2

Any player intentionally 'miscalling' his/her hand will be penalized.

Dealers are obligated to inform the floor staff if this happen.

73.3

'Conditional statements' regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged, although they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at the Tournament Director's discretion (i.e. "if-then" statements such as "if you bet, then I will raise").

Please See Rule 52.4 for further details of a "Declaration of action OUT OF TURN".

TDA

12:   Declarations, Cards Speak at Showdown

Cards speak to determine the winner. Verbal declarations of hand value are not binding at showdown.

However, deliberately miscalling a hand may be penalized.

Any player, in the hand or not, should speak up if he thinks a mistake is being made in the reading of hands.

 

51:   Conditional Statements

Conditional statements regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged; they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at TD’s discretion.

Example:  “if – then” statements such as "If you bet, then I will raise”

 

73 VVerbal Declaration of Hand/Action In or Out of Turn 73.1

A verbal declaration as to the content of a player’s hand is NOT binding - 'Cards speak for themselves.'

73.2

Any player intentionally 'miscalling' his/her hand will be penalized.

Dealers are obligated to inform the floor staff if this happen.

73.3

'Conditional statements' regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged, although they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at the Tournament Director's discretion (i.e. "if-then" statements such as "if you bet, then I will raise").

Please See Rule 52.4 for further details of a "Declaration of action OUT OF TURN".

TDA

12:   Declarations, Cards Speak at Showdown

Cards speak to determine the winner. Verbal declarations of hand value are not binding at showdown.

However, deliberately miscalling a hand may be penalized.

Any player, in the hand or not, should speak up if he thinks a mistake is being made in the reading of hands.

 

51:   Conditional Statements

Conditional statements regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged; they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at TD’s discretion.

Example:  “if – then” statements such as "If you bet, then I will raise”

 

Uridium

In Response to Re: Cash game rules.:

there is no "official" single source rule book. Poker doesn't have a governing body). In a home game - then good luck sorting it out - hope you can all stay friends!
Posted by Phantom66

There is actaully a governning body for poker - the FIDPA, on their website they have a comprehensive set of rules, this is from the relevant section:

73 Verbal Declaration of Hand/Action In or Out of Turn

73.1

• A verbal declaration as to the content of a player’s hand is NOT binding - 'Cards speak for themselves.'

73.2

• Any player intentionally 'miscalling' his/her hand will be penalized.

  Dealers are obligated to inform the floor staff if this happen.

73.3

• 'Conditional statements' regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged, although they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at the Tournament Director's discretion (i.e. "if-then" statements such as "if you bet, then I will raise").

  Please See Rule 52.4 for further details of a "Declaration of action OUT OF TURN".

• TDA

12:   Declarations, Cards Speak at Showdown

Cards speak to determine the winner. Verbal declarations of hand value are not binding at showdown.

However, deliberately miscalling a hand may be penalized.

Any player, in the hand or not, should speak up if he thinks a mistake is being made in the reading of hands.

 

51:   Conditional Statements

Conditional statements regarding future action are non-standard and strongly discouraged; they may be binding and/or subject to penalty at TD’s discretion.

Example:  “if – then” statements such as "If you bet, then I will raise”