Most staking deals will involve make - up ( I stake a few players on other sites )
Make up will be if a player is in the negtive for you then he will be in a situation where he has to play his way out of the hole (On the backers money still)
For example -
night one you lose 500
night 2 you win 1000
You will not just split the 1000 down the middle. the backer will take the 500 losses from the previous night. that will leave you with 500 to split down the middle.
That is the only legitimate way for a backer to make money. it is a fair way but the backer will always be the one to provide funds.
A backer can pull out anytime where a player can not. if you are - £4000 you will have to make attempts to get out of makeup or agree a specific time range with the backer.
If it is just him putting up money and you get 50% he is dumb and even if you make money.... he will not long term.
MATT8 you have echoed my own thoughts very nicely (especially the comparison between myself and Tom Cruise). A part of me does worry that this could end up in a hostel 3 kind of situation. Even to the point where I have been thinking of ways to communicate that I am in trouble to friends/family back home lol and then I think if I am even considering these measure's then that should be a sign to back away now.
One thing making me think it is legit is that I asked if I could start in December and he said it would be better to wait for late Jan for the Chinese New Year tourists. Surely if he was a psychotic murderer he would have agreed to let me start early (unless he is just pulled the ultimate level!).
VespaPX very good shout! Macau prison sounds equally as fun as a hostel 3 type situation!
Itsover4u the deal would involve makeup. If I lost a couple of buy ins early in the month any profit would first go towards paying back losses. If I was at a loss at the end of the trial month he said he would be happy to take the financial hit and put it down as a failed venture.
Lol if it was a fair race, I would back myself to outrun this guy. However I fear if things turn nasty I'm not going to be given the liberty of a fair race.
hi man do you think he is a far worse player than you? as otherwise there is nothing in it for him. he could play with the money himself. are you a profitable player? if so, finance yourself and keep 100% i fear that if you continue there might be some pain coming your way at some stage. sir, step away from the sweet tin. Posted by aussie09
MATT8 you have echoed my own thoughts very nicely (especially the comparison between myself and Tom Cruise). A part of me does worry that this could end up in a hostel 3 kind of situation. Even to the point where I have been thinking of ways to communicate that I am in trouble to friends/family back home lol and then I think if I am even considering these measure's then that should be a sign to back away now. One thing making me think it is legit is that I asked if I could start in December and he said it would be better to wait for late Jan for the Chinese New Year tourists. Surely if he was a psychotic murderer he would have agreed to let me start early (unless he is just pulled the ultimate level!). VespaPX very good shout! Macau prison sounds equally as fun as a hostel 3 type situation! Itsover4u the deal would involve makeup. If I lost a couple of buy ins early in the month any profit would first go towards paying back losses. If I was at a loss at the end of the trial month he said he would be happy to take the financial hit and put it down as a failed venture. Posted by Thoich
Ironically this situation is very similar to playing poker game and you have to go with your gut feeling, which by the sounds of it you either thinking you are going to be in jail or worse can only be a bad thing.
MATT8 you have echoed my own thoughts very nicely (especially the comparison between myself and Tom Cruise). A part of me does worry that this could end up in a hostel 3 kind of situation. Even to the point where I have been thinking of ways to communicate that I am in trouble to friends/family back home lol and then I think if I am even considering these measure's then that should be a sign to back away now. One thing making me think it is legit is that I asked if I could start in December and he said it would be better to wait for late Jan for the Chinese New Year tourists. Surely if he was a psychotic murderer he would have agreed to let me start early (unless he is just pulled the ultimate level!). VespaPX very good shout! Macau prison sounds equally as fun as a hostel 3 type situation! Itsover4u the deal would involve makeup. If I lost a couple of buy ins early in the month any profit would first go towards paying back losses. If I was at a loss at the end of the trial month he said he would be happy to take the financial hit and put it down as a failed venture. Posted by Thoich
The deal is more than likely legit and he probably know what he is doing. £2 /£4 cash games live (maccau) are a **** of a lot weaker than a £2 /£4 online table with 3/4 regs.
In all seriousness it probably plays like a 25nl table online.
If the stake is above your usual limits and you can viably make more than if you ground it out yourself at lower limits then grab the opportunity with both hands!
If you want to discuss any of non standard staking arrangements feel free to drop me a pm and I should be able to help.
staking someone where you take 50% of the winnings in any one month and where the losses are 100% rolled over is a fantastic deal for me. not for you.
i would look for volatile players who are good enough to break even. i would need to find some bond that ensured that losses were recoverable in the future. fantastic deal.
simple maths...
stake £1,000 each month. the player wins £500 and loses £500 and wins £500 and etc.
month 1 he wins and I take £250 month 2 take nothing but owed £500. month 3 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £250 owed. month 4 take nothing but owed £750. month 5 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £500 owed. month 6 take nothing but owed £1,000. and so on.
it will be worse if the first month was losing month.
staked player has broken even but owes £1,000 after 6 months me as a staker has taken £1,250 and you owe me £1,000
i win, i win, i win
i just need a bond of friendship, or a bond of honour, or a bond of some heavies to ensure you pay the £1,000 owed to me.... and you are the break even player. you played a breakeven game for 6 months yet you owe me.
staking someone where you take 50% of the winnings in any one month and where the losses are 100% rolled over is a fantastic deal for me. not for you. i would look for volatile players who are good enough to break even. i would need to find some bond that ensured that losses were recoverable in the future. fantastic deal. simple maths... stake £1,000 each month. the player wins £500 and loses £500 and wins £500 and etc. month 1 he wins and I take £250 month 2 take nothing but owed £500. month 3 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £250 owed. month 4 take nothing but owed £750. month 5 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £500 owed. month 6 take nothing but owed £1,000. and so on. it will be worse if the first month was losing month. staked player has broken even but owes £1,000 after 6 months me as a staker has taken £1,250 and you owe me £1,000 i win, i win, i win i just need a bond of friendship, or a bond of honour, or a bond of some heavies to ensure you pay the £1,000 owed to me.... and you are the break even player. you played a breakeven game for 6 months yet you owe me. how good is that. Posted by aussie09
I think there is a fair bit of confusion here. I will try and explain as you have it very wrong here.
We fund player to play. Using your example, we send £1k. If they lose we top up their funds so they always have £1k and this increases their make up. When they win they send us the excess over the £1k and this reduces make up. If they are profitable over the staking period profits are chopped and its reset and we start again.
Also, the make up isn't owed as such. It will depend on the exact contract but if player decides he doesn't want to play poker anymore he can walk away.
In Response to Re: Staking offer. Is this too good to be true? : I think there is a fair bit of confusion here. I will try and explain as you have it very wrong here. We fund player to play. Using your example, we send £1k. If they lose we top up their funds so they always have £1k and this increases their make up. When they win they send us the excess over the £1k and this reduces make up. If they are profitable over the staking period profits are chopped and its reset and we start again. Also, the make up isn't owed as such. It will depend on the exact contract but if player decides he doesn't want to play poker anymore he can walk away. Posted by MattBates
thanks matt, i thought that they would share the winnings each month
to help illustrate the numbers, take it that the staking period is one month and they play once. winning and losing £500 alternate periods. you can change the month to week or day if you would like. at the end of each staking period 50% goes to each. the consequence is the same.
the risk is all the stakers. if he decides to drop the horse then the makeup is not owed and beyond a certain point it becomes unrealsitic for a player to play their way out of make-up and you'd be piling money into a 'debt' that is virtually unrecoverable. in your example you could end up being 'owed' 50k, but have you a realistic real-world chance of getting that money back off a player that has struggled with results and needed to be staked in the first place?
most backers would cut their losses rather than continuing to throw money at the problem
there is rarely a 'bond' involved in these deals
also your maths is off, well assumptions anyway:
month 1 he wins and I take £250 month 2 take nothing but owed £500. month 3 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £250 owed. month 4 take nothing but owed £750. month 5 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £500 owed. month 6 take nothing but owed £1,000. and so on.
all the money in the second month would go to clear the make-up. you only profit split when out of make up usually.
so you would go:
month 1 he wins and I take £250 month 2 take nothing but owed £500. month 3 take $500 of the owed money month 4 take nothing but owed £500 month 5 take £500 of the owed money month 6 take nothing but owed 500 and so on.
if you struck your deal so that half the money went to make up and half to the player then yes you could allow your horse wrack up a huge amount of make-up. but i doubt it would be +ev to allow that to happen.
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i play under a staking / coaching deal at the moment,. i've found it to be an incredible experience. great coaching and support and no risk to me financially. yes i have volume requirements to hit and study to do, but when you enjoy those things giving up x% of your winnings is well worth it, or has been for me. the only downside for me has been having the games / sites i play on restricted.
Acerag, my gut feeling on the night was that he was a trustworthy guy and the offer was legit. The more I think about it the more worst case scenario's I imagine, talking myself out of the deal. I am also joking about the jail or worse situations, mostly.
Aussie09, I would say we are about a similar standard. He runs a business in China which takes up the majority of his time, which is why he isn't grinding the games himself. It's hard to give a definate answer of whether I am a profitable player in the games given my sample size is about 2 hours, but if the quality of play I saw that night is anything to go by then I would say definately yes. I don't have the funds to finance myself in these games, and as itsover4u says, the appeal of this deal to me is that it would give me an oppurtunity to make a considerable amount more than playing my usual games on sky.
Itsover4u, thanks, I Will most likely be in touch to pick your brains at some point over the next few months
To clear up the makeup confusion... He will give me 5k bankroll at the start of the month. If I lose 1k early in the month, the roll will not be topped back up to 5k. I just play with the roll until the end of the month. If my roll if above 5k at the end of the month, the profit is split and the roll returns to 5k for the next month. If I am at a loss I give him what is left of the roll and we go our seperate ways.
Comments
Out of interest, how fast can you run Thoich?
hi man
do you think he is a far worse player than you? as otherwise there is nothing in it for him. he could play with the money himself.
are you a profitable player? if so, finance yourself and keep 100%
i fear that if you continue there might be some pain coming your way at some stage.
sir, step away from the sweet tin.
Ironically this situation is very similar to playing poker game and you have to go with your gut feeling, which by the sounds of it you either thinking you are going to be in jail or worse can only be a bad thing.
staking someone where you take 50% of the winnings in any one month and where the losses are 100% rolled over is a fantastic deal for me. not for you.
i would look for volatile players who are good enough to break even. i would need to find some bond that ensured that losses were recoverable in the future. fantastic deal.
simple maths...
stake £1,000 each month. the player wins £500 and loses £500 and wins £500 and etc.
month 1 he wins and I take £250
month 2 take nothing but owed £500.
month 3 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £250 owed.
month 4 take nothing but owed £750.
month 5 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £500 owed.
month 6 take nothing but owed £1,000.
and so on.
it will be worse if the first month was losing month.
staked player has broken even but owes £1,000 after 6 months
me as a staker has taken £1,250 and you owe me £1,000
i win, i win, i win
i just need a bond of friendship, or a bond of honour, or a bond of some heavies to ensure you pay the £1,000 owed to me.... and you are the break even player. you played a breakeven game for 6 months yet you owe me.
how good is that.
We fund player to play. Using your example, we send £1k. If they lose we top up their funds so they always have £1k and this increases their make up. When they win they send us the excess over the £1k and this reduces make up. If they are profitable over the staking period profits are chopped and its reset and we start again.
Also, the make up isn't owed as such. It will depend on the exact contract but if player decides he doesn't want to play poker anymore he can walk away.
thanks matt, i thought that they would share the winnings each month
to help illustrate the numbers, take it that the staking period is one month and they play once. winning and losing £500 alternate periods. you can change the month to week or day if you would like. at the end of each staking period 50% goes to each. the consequence is the same.
most backers would cut their losses rather than continuing to throw money at the problem
there is rarely a 'bond' involved in these deals
also your maths is off, well assumptions anyway:
month 1 he wins and I take £250
month 2 take nothing but owed £500.
month 3 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £250 owed.
month 4 take nothing but owed £750.
month 5 take £250 plus £250 of the owed money leaving £500 owed.
month 6 take nothing but owed £1,000.
and so on.
all the money in the second month would go to clear the make-up. you only profit split when out of make up usually.
so you would go:
month 1 he wins and I take £250
month 2 take nothing but owed £500.
month 3 take $500 of the owed money
month 4 take nothing but owed £500
month 5 take £500 of the owed money
month 6 take nothing but owed 500
and so on.
if you struck your deal so that half the money went to make up and half to the player then yes you could allow your horse wrack up a huge amount of make-up. but i doubt it would be +ev to allow that to happen.
---
i play under a staking / coaching deal at the moment,. i've found it to be an incredible experience. great coaching and support and no risk to me financially. yes i have volume requirements to hit and study to do, but when you enjoy those things giving up x% of your winnings is well worth it, or has been for me. the only downside for me has been having the games / sites i play on restricted.
Aussie09, I would say we are about a similar standard. He runs a business in China which takes up the majority of his time, which is why he isn't grinding the games himself. It's hard to give a definate answer of whether I am a profitable player in the games given my sample size is about 2 hours, but if the quality of play I saw that night is anything to go by then I would say definately yes. I don't have the funds to finance myself in these games, and as itsover4u says, the appeal of this deal to me is that it would give me an oppurtunity to make a considerable amount more than playing my usual games on sky.
Itsover4u, thanks, I Will most likely be in touch to pick your brains at some point over the next few months
To clear up the makeup confusion... He will give me 5k bankroll at the start of the month. If I lose 1k early in the month, the roll will not be topped back up to 5k. I just play with the roll until the end of the month. If my roll if above 5k at the end of the month, the profit is split and the roll returns to 5k for the next month. If I am at a loss I give him what is left of the roll and we go our seperate ways.