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How rediculous...

JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
edited December 2014 in Brags, Beats and Variance
How rediculous..

so villian has to limp with AA AND check the flop with no bets.

By the river, i have full house which can only be beat by 3 hands,  AA, AJ, 44.

So of course my oponent has AA and didnt bet.....

Do you really have to go to these lengths just to take my measily £2..... ??

Hand History #849338695 (15:50 14/12/2014)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceJimRiddle7Small blind 10.0010.001970.00Lorna987Big blind 20.0030.001980.00 Your hole cardsJ4   seeceeCall 20.0050.002190.00grigooorFold    mckillop08Fold    badlinFold    JimRiddle7Call 10.0060.001960.00Lorna987Check    Flop  2JA   JimRiddle7Check    Lorna987Check    seeceeCheck    Turn  J   JimRiddle7Bet 60.00120.001900.00Lorna987Fold    seeceeRaise 120.00240.002070.00JimRiddle7Call 60.00300.001840.00River  2   JimRiddle7Bet 225.00525.001615.00seeceeRaise 450.00975.001620.00JimRiddle7Raise 1425.002400.00190.00seeceeAll-in 1620.004020.000.00JimRiddle7All-in 190.004210.000.00seeceeUnmatched bet 230.003980.00230.00JimRiddle7ShowJ4   seeceeShowAA   seeceeWinFull House, Aces and Jacks3980.00 4210.00
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014



    Sorry 22, not 44.

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  • stuarty117stuarty117 Member Posts: 1,395
    edited December 2014
    Why limp with J4 thats your first problem. 

    You should not have been in the hand.

    Also i think this is a dym there is no need to go bust in the first level
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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk Member Posts: 6,183
    edited December 2014
    In the style of Mike Sexton, WPT commentator ... "What you're seeing here, folks, is real power-poker!" ;-)
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    In the style of Mike Sexton, WPT commentator ... "What you're seeing here, folks, is real power-poker!" ;-)
    Posted by NoseyBonk

    lol
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    Why limp with J4 thats your first problem.  You should not have been in the hand. Also i think this is a dym there is no need to go bust in the first level
    Posted by stuarty117
    True but i was in the small blind..  just another Amazing cooler i guess...
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  • stuarty117stuarty117 Member Posts: 1,395
    edited December 2014
    How does that make a difference calling from the small blind with cards like that can get u in all kinds of trouble.
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater Member Posts: 3,592
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    In Response to Re: How rediculous... : True but i was in the small blind..  just another Amazing cooler i guess...
    Posted by JimRiddle7
    Stuart is right, mate - it's a bit of a leak to be calling with junk like that from any position.
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    In Response to Re: How rediculous... : Stuart is right, mate - it's a bit of a leak to be calling with junk like that from any position.
    Posted by Slipwater

    Ok, but 75 chips already in pot and costs me 15 to see a flop..  I'm getting 5:1 odds, shouldnt i be calling with any two?
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    In Response to Re: How rediculous... : Ok, but 75 chips already in pot and costs me 15 to see a flop..  I'm getting 5:1 odds, shouldnt i be calling with any two?
    Posted by JimRiddle7
    Sorry 50 chips, 10 to call, laying 5:1..
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  • stuarty117stuarty117 Member Posts: 1,395
    edited December 2014
    No not at this stage of a dym oe any stage with J4

    A pocket pair yes throw in the 10 chips to see a flop and set mine
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater Member Posts: 3,592
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    In Response to Re: How rediculous... : Ok, but 75 chips already in pot and costs me 15 to see a flop..  I'm getting 5:1 odds, shouldnt i be calling with any two?
    Posted by JimRiddle7
    What kind of flop are you hoping to see when you are holding J4 offsuit?

    Jack high is no good, because your kicker is no kicker at all.

    Four high is no better because even if you're ahead at that point, you certainly won't be after the next card.

    So really the only thing you can hope for is JJx or 44x... and why would you pay any amount of chips in the hope of seeing that flop?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2014

    If it's a dym, I'd imagine it's almost certainly a fold? I dunno though. 

    In any other form of poker it's probably fine to call getting 5/1 with almost any 2 cards against 2 extremely weak ranges. 


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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    In Response to Re: How rediculous... : What kind of flop are you hoping to see when you are holding J4 offsuit? Jack high is no good, because your kicker is no kicker at all. Four high is no better because even if you're ahead at that point, you certainly won't be after the next card. So really the only thing you can hope for is JJx or 44x... and why would you pay any amount of chips in the hope of seeing that flop?
    Posted by Slipwater
    I guess the dream flop would be 2JA with everyone checking behind you, and then a J on the turn....

    UNLESS, of course, you're walking into a trap !..


    and if you had J4 in the bb and flop came J62 rainbow, would you bet?  I think you would....
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    If it's a dym, I'd imagine it's almost certainly a fold? I dunno though.  In any other form of poker it's probably fine to call getting 5/1 with almost any 2 cards against 2 extremely weak ranges. 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Thanks dohhh, i just cant see the reason to fold my small blind in a limped pot..  ive seen many flops with hands such as J5 and its not uncommon to hit 2 pair..
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited December 2014

    Yah, I've just been messing about on the calculator.

    Even if the UTG position player is limping only pocket pairs 22-AA and AJ+ we still have 20% equity to win the hand aganst that range and a random hand in the big blind. 

    Equity Win Tie  
    MP2  20.59%  19.83%  0.75% J4o
    MP3  52.70%  52.17%  0.53% 22+, AJs+, AJo+
    CO  26.71%  25.84%  0.87% random
    We only need 17% ish I think. So even if we know he's limping a strong range, we can still call. 

    Obviously we expect him to be limping tonnes wider than this, so in reality we'll be above 20%.

    Tough hand and position to play from post flop though on alot of boards. 


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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited December 2014
    Awful hand, not even suited, doesn't do anything, doesn't work together, out of position for the whole hand, might hit and be in awful shape, playing all streets vs an unknown range.

    Yeah, massive cooler and no mistakes on your part.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited December 2014
    I can't believe no-one has mentioned river play. When you bet river and get min-r going all in is just a huge mistake. Your opponent doesn't have a 2 (he isn't raising turn with bottom pair and nor should he be raising river if he did happen to have a 2. So basically, he has Jx and better or a bluff. If you ship river he folds his bluffs, calls with Jx and better. If you aren't being called by a worse hand, your bet is bad.

    Also, pre-flop is a fold. Ignore the odds you are getting in pre-flop situations like this. You still have post flop play and any chips you gain from the pre-flop call you will likely lose post flop since it's going to be impossible to make a profit with this hand from the worst position.
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  • TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited December 2014
    the fact it is a dym means you should fold.

    the chips you lose are WAY more valuable than the chips you stand to win, and you will only flop 2pair+ 3.5% of the time and 90% wont even have top pair. when we do have top pair it kinda sucks too as we may not get to showdown and will be outkicked often.

    DYM's are a rare beast. you have to be a super nit here, no room for speculation
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    the fact it is a dym means you should fold. the chips you lose are WAY more valuable than the chips you stand to win, and you will only flop 2pair+ 3.5% of the time and 90% wont even have top pair. when we do have top pair it kinda sucks too as we may not get to showdown and will be outkicked often. DYM's are a rare beast. you have to be a super nit here, no room for speculation
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    Yep thats true, guess i just convinced myself that i was ahead.. thanks.
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  • JimRiddle7JimRiddle7 Member Posts: 142
    edited December 2014
    In Response to Re: How rediculous...:
    I can't believe no-one has mentioned river play. When you bet river and get min-r going all in is just a huge mistake. Your opponent doesn't have a 2 (he isn't raising turn with bottom pair and nor should he be raising river if he did happen to have a 2. So basically, he has Jx and better or a bluff. If you ship river he folds his bluffs, calls with Jx and better. If you aren't being called by a worse hand, your bet is bad. Also, pre-flop is a fold. Ignore the odds you are getting in pre-flop situations like this. You still have post flop play and any chips you gain from the pre-flop call you will likely lose post flop since it's going to be impossible to make a profit with this hand from the worst position.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Amazing reply thanks, I understand your points completely, guess i have to put it into practice now.. cheers :)
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