Thought I was stopping a flush draw but was gifting my stack away...thoughts?

Marcusb169

I posted on here last time I played regarding the way I played K A and now I have given away my stack with Q A suited. I bet heavily as thought I was ahead the majority of times but wanted to take the chips instead of getting stuck in a tricky situation if a flush rivered and the big stack could afford to put me all in. Turned out he had pocket 10's and must have been over the moon with my play as the third 10 came on the turn before I pushed.

2 questions, first 1, how would you have played it?

The second, do you think it would it be a profitable play in the long run, getting paid off with worse Q's and stopping the flush draws/giving them the wrong odds or is there too many hands that could be beating me there?

I look forward to hearing your feedback PS if the views are conflicting please don't argue amongst yourselves on here as I appreciate hearing them all.

Many thanks,

Hand History #854699243 (22:07 28/12/2014)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
MYTAZ	Small blind		125.00	125.00	23091.25
chilling	Big blind		250.00	375.00	9015.00
	Your hole cards	Q A
asif1989	Fold
Marcusb169	Raise		500.00	875.00	9841.25
noname007	Fold
BA100	Call		500.00	1375.00	23075.00
MYTAZ	Fold
chilling	Fold
Flop
		7 Q 3
Marcusb169	Check
BA100	Bet		1375.00	2750.00	21700.00
Marcusb169	Call		1375.00	4125.00	8466.25
Turn
		10
Marcusb169	All-in		8466.25	12591.25	0.00
BA100	Call		8466.25	21057.50	13233.75
Marcusb169	Show	Q A
BA100	Show	10 10
River
		3
BA100	Win	Full House, 10s and 3s	21057.50

Nuggy962

hi

I think that pre flop is fine:

check on the flop is a huge mistake imo - you opponent is expecting a continuation bet - if he has a draw then charge him, if he has air he will fold anyway, if he had KJ, K10 giving them a free card (Never good)

Shove on the turn is terrible long term. Every hand that you beat folds, flush draws fold as no longer getting correct odds to call. medium pocket pairs fold and all bluffing hands fold.  If I hold KQ there I would fold.  

Trapping is fine but in general most good players will see alarm bells ring if you bet pre then stop on a flop that is in your hitting range then shove a brick turn or river.  

If I was you oppenent I would of been snap calling.

Hope that helps

Marcusb169

In Response to Re: Thought I was stopping a flush draw but was gifting my stack away...thoughts?:

hi I think that pre flop is fine: check on the flop is a huge mistake imo - you opponent is expecting a continuation bet - if he has a draw then charge him, if he has air he will fold anyway, if he had KJ, K10 giving them a free card (Never good) Shove on the turn is terrible long term. Every hand that you beat folds, flush draws fold as no longer getting correct odds to call. medium pocket pairs fold and all bluffing hands fold.  If I hold KQ there I would fold.   Trapping is fine but in general most good players will see alarm bells ring if you bet pre then stop on a flop that is in your hitting range then shove a brick turn or river.   If I was you oppenent I would of been snap calling. Hope that helps
Posted by Nuggy962

Appreciate the input, my opponent was betting pot size a lot to try and push off from what I had witnessed and as such I was confident he would bet my flop check as in turn he did. I also didn't want to raise as I thought he would fold. When a further flush draw came and the potential for runs to be made as well I wanted to close these out of the pot rather than give them the chance to call a bet they shouldn't, make it and push the chips in or possibly float. I think being afraid of an overcard everytime is too cautious for me and betting out to an all in flush draw reraise push is also a position I didn't want on the flop. If I slowed played/played straight forward I may have saved myself some chips on this occasion, but would I be better or worse off in the long run? I'm trying to get my head round if I'm unlucky on these big hands or if I'm playing them completely wrong and they shouldn't be big hands at all. 

TeddyBloat

"stopping the flush draws/giving them the wrong odds"

Not going to analyse the hand, but the above quote needs addressing.

This is just horrible thinking. Draws are one of the hands you want to call / put money into the pot. You do not want to price them out. With one card to come a naked flush draw has such crumby equity that you dont need to bet much to give them an incorrect price (in terms of pure pot odds anyways).

Dont be scared of tough river decisions / being outdrawn. Dont price out hands that you beat, certainly not ones with less than 20% equity.

As a comparison,  a bare flush draw v top pair on the turn has roughly the same equity as 33 does v AA preflop. Would you over bet jam pre with AA just to avoid a bad beat from lower pocket pairs?

TeddyBloat

Think about your betsizes / actions as a filter. The bigger you bet, the stronger range you face as the size filters out all other hands.

You were not unlucky here. The only hands that can call are hands that beat you, everything else folds. 

Your opponent has a range of hands here, betting a more standard size allows all those weaker hands to stay in the hand. The cut off is 50% equity. If you have more than that v his calling range then you have a value bet. Here you have bet so much that top pair - top kicker is now effectively a bluff, as you really dont want a call off a competent player.