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Poor flop for AA.

hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
edited December 2021 in Strategy
9.30 £11 BH....first level, only a couple of orbits in so no reads apart from he's limped in once or twice. Recognise the name but no history. Call or fold?
artifice7 Small blind  10.00 10.00 2070.00
X Big blind  20.00 30.00 2045.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • A
     
jadfish26 Fold     
hhyftrftdr Raise  60.00 90.00 1950.00
otto1st Fold     
TheDart Fold     
artifice7 Fold     
X Raise  240.00 330.00 1805.00
hhyftrftdr Raise  565.00 895.00 1385.00
X Call  365.00 1260.00 1440.00
Flop
   
  • 9
  • Q
  • 10
     
X All-in  1440.00 2700.00 0.00
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Comments

  • GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,600
    edited January 2015
    Def fold fae me!   Grrrr  tho
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited January 2015
    i'm not folding.
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  • mrsduckmrsduck Member Posts: 1,901
    edited January 2015
    Close your eyes and call?
    Reckon they have AK/AQ/AJ/KK/QQ/JJ five of those you beat at the moment...that's the extent of my maths!
    :)

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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2015
    Urgh this is just urgh.

    I'd be folding, cant think of anything worse other than JcJx that would be donk overbet shoving this flop

    (Or KcKx but that probably goes in pre?)
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA.:
    Urgh this is just urgh. I'd be folding, cant think of anything worse other than JcJx that would be donk overbet shoving this flop (Or KcKx but that probably goes in pre?)
    Posted by Matt237
    It's hardly an overbet tho, there's only slightly more than a PSB left OTF so villain will be GII pretty wide - if he had anything really strong he'd probably check. The only hands we lose to IMO are vulnerable 2 pair hands (so QT, Q9, T9) and we have some equity vs these hands. 
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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA.:
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA. : It's hardly an overbet tho, there's only slightly more than a PSB left OTF so villain will be GII pretty wide - if he had anything really strong he'd probably check. The only hands we lose to IMO are vulnerable 2 pair hands (so QT, Q9, T9) and we have some equity vs these hands. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Are average villains going to be 3betting/peeling 4bets these hands in the BB though? OP says he's limped once or twice which suggests passiveness and we are in the first level still
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  • seanallenseanallen Member Posts: 114
    edited January 2015
    4 betting AA leaving a post flop SPR of about 1.1, I think its right to do it with the intenion of getting it in on any flop?

    When people donk pot shove flops, its generally suggestive of a hand that doesn't want to fold but also wants to maximise fold equity.
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  • seanallenseanallen Member Posts: 114
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA.:
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA. : Are average villains going to be 3betting/peeling 4bets these hands in the BB though? OP says he's limped once or twice which suggests passiveness and we are in the first level still
    Posted by Matt237
    These hands beat us. The fact that two pair combos only make up a small part of his '3bet/peel 4bet range' just increases the chances of our hand being good.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA.:
    4 betting AA leaving a post flop SPR of about 1.1, I think its right to do it with the intenion of getting it in on any flop? When people donk pot shove flops, its generally suggestive of a hand that doesn't want to fold but also wants to maximise fold equity.
    Posted by seanallen
    Yeah I've sized it to be able to play for stacks on any flop....it's just this flop is flipping awful!

    When villain 3bets I know he has something decent, and then calls the 4bet I have him on something premium....its that range vs AA on that flop that I'm unsure of.
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  • Matt237Matt237 Member Posts: 1,785
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA.:
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA. : These hands beat us. The fact that two pair combos only make up a small part of his '3bet/peel 4bet range' just increases the chances of our hand being good.
    Posted by seanallen
    Site timed out for ages, was going to edit and say if he is not 3betting/calling those hands then the same won't apply for pair+draw type hands if any on this board. So I'd say range here is very narrow and on this flop i'm not really too sure if we should be calling a donk all in.

    I can't see any Qx or Tx or Jx hands being a part of this range except for QQ/TT/JJ , possibly AQ/AT/AJ but not even sure your average passive villain will be 3betting these hands. Bit too busy to do maths but how are we doing against 99+ and AK+ and AQs+ on this board? Think it will probably end up being a call but can't say I'd be making it.
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  • seanallenseanallen Member Posts: 114
    edited January 2015
    Pokerstove has us at 40% vs 99+, AQs+(First time I've used it though so i might have done it wrong, feels on the high side and hes probably not shoving AK with no club or AK of clubs, so i guess it will put our equity down a bit)

    If we are getting around about the correct price to call versus his range then i guess it's a question of whether its better to be sat with about 700 chips in two tournaments and 4700 in one or sat with 2000 in all 3? The latter seems a better proposition to me so i guess it might be a fold versus a premium range.
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  • mrsduckmrsduck Member Posts: 1,901
    edited January 2015
    hufty did you call? :)
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited January 2015
    This is really close imo.

    Think based on the fact he has limped a couple of times, and the fact that he has just donk jammed as opposed to checking to you makes this a call.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    I was far from in love with it, but tank called. I felt I was good now as didn't think he'd jam a flopped set/straight/flush, but I knew I was gonna have to dodge a lot of the deck!

    He had JJ and binked the straight on the turn. I genuinely can't remember if he had the Jc but I remember my reaction when the cards went on their backs (oh ****) which makes me think he must have had it!

    Thanks for the input guys.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited January 2015
    UL... we have 40% vs JJ (with J of clubs) - given PF action which I forgot about in my first post JJ w J of clubs def makes the most sense. But yeah, seems like at worst case vs his donk shoving range we'll have 40%. If we add in all JJ hands, all AQ and all KK hands then it makes it a clear call.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: Poor flop for AA.:
    UL... we have 40% vs JJ (with J of clubs) - given PF action which I forgot about in my first post JJ w J of clubs def makes the most sense. But yeah, seems like at worst case vs his donk shoving range we'll have 40%. If we add in all JJ hands, all AQ and all KK hands then it makes it a clear call.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    It certainly felt like I was gonna be up against either of JJ (with or without club), AcQx, AcKx and sometimes KcKx.

    Snap him off if I had AcAx, but had to give it a little thought without the club insurance :)
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  • Pkr_GirlPkr_Girl Member Posts: 4
    edited January 2015
    Urgh, i'd be sick!
    Fold all day long.
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