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The Case Against Teams

EyemanEyeman Member Posts: 1,039
edited April 2015 in Team Talk
Teams have been on Skypoker for a while now, but there's a few things that make them inappropriate in my opinion, and Sky may want to reconsider them. I speak as someone who has been in a team (TKP) for a few years, and enjoy the cameraderie that the team engenders.
We all know poker is an individual game, and that's acknowledged by all teams. I haven't seen collusion, and it's nothing to do with that.
The problem arises here when Sky has allowed anyone to set up teams, styling themselves as "captains" etc without anyone checking to see how those teams are run, who can or can't join a team and who makes the decision as to who is "in" or "out" for whatever reason.
Now, if there wasn't any reward for teams, it wouldn't be relevant or any of Sky's concern about team politics and the in-fighting that can go on when any group of people get together with any sort of hierarchy system. However, Sky DOES offer team prizes, and so indirectly they encourage and condone the pettiness that can and does occur.
I think the DTD competition is a great idea. It has brought about a great community spirit, and the teams really get behind their players. Think on this, would it have been any different if Sky had nominated teams, and DTD players were assigned a team randomly in order? Not only would it take away this hierarchy, but it would also mean that all teams would have roughly equal numbers (clearly some people would register with a team, then never or rarely play so slight inequities could exist over time, but that can be remedied when new players join). They could still have facebook pages, and team spirit, but no-one could be removed on the whim of a single person (whether warranted or not). Surely Sky should be deciding who can or can't win prizes, not team captains?
I'm not saying I'm right, but am opening up a discussion. There's been some unsavoury incidents from time to time, and maybe that's just human nature, but give someone a little power, and they can behave in very strange ways.
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Comments

  • samantha25samantha25 Member Posts: 1,445
    edited January 2015
    I agree, lets ban all teams and just have friends... will make all the difference!

    No... the same people will still agree/bicker. Silly post IMO.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015

    Case is water tight. You ever thought about a career in law?

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  • EyemanEyeman Member Posts: 1,039
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    Case is water tight. You ever thought about a career in law?
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Just starting a debate. Any thoughts?
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams : Just starting a debate. Any thoughts?
    Posted by Eyeman
    Yes, my thoughts are being in a team is great (assuming you are in a team that 'fits'). Loads of potential for new friends, people to seek out for advice about poker and stuff away from the felt, lots of fun to be had, and the possibility to organise stuff like Newcastle in March.

    Plenty of pros, and very few cons from my perspective. Though I'm not letting a certain thread cloud my judgement.
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  • EyemanEyeman Member Posts: 1,039
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams : Yes, my thoughts are being in a team is great (assuming you are in a team that 'fits'). Loads of potential for new friends, people to seek out for advice about poker and stuff away from the felt, lots of fun to be had, and the possibility to organise stuff like Newcastle in March. Plenty of pros, and very few cons from my perspective. Though I'm not letting a certain thread cloud my judgement.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Maybe I should have said "in their current format". I think having teamsas suggested in my post would still give the same pros as you suggest with fewer of the cons. Trust me - the thread you are thinking of has nothing to do with my post.
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  • vinny67vinny67 Member Posts: 112
    edited January 2015
    it seems the fun police are at it again.....any1 deemed to be having fun with maybe a "slightly warped" sense of humour should be thrown to the lions ... im not in a team at all but do not see teams as a problem.

    for what its worth
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams : Maybe I should have said "in their current format". I think having teamsas suggested in my post would still give the same pros as you suggest with fewer of the cons. Trust me - the thread you are thinking of has nothing to do with my post.
    Posted by Eyeman
    I'm not entirely sure what you are wanting. The team format seems to have worked, and is working, fine for years.

    Are you requesting that Sky allocate the teams? Or meddle in them somewhat? So just a load of randoms get lumped together?

    In all honesty there are no cons in my eyes. People will fall out, and people will come and go, this is normal for any team and hardly exclusive to Sky Poker. Sky meddling in the teams would probably cause and escalate any problems.

    I know what has brought this on btw. Granted, not that thread, but I know. Nothing like making a mountain out of a molehill.
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  • EyemanEyeman Member Posts: 1,039
    edited January 2015
    I suspect it's too far gone now. Teams are fun. Dictatorships less so.
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  • Nuggy962Nuggy962 Member Posts: 1,104
    edited January 2015
    For what it is worth

    I chose to be in a team to help me srt my trolling out and it worked a treat!

    being in a team is personal choice - you do not have to be, if you choose to and there is a reward on offer - good for you, its an outside bonus.

    Yeah anyone can set it up but only the real dedicated ones grow roots and keep on going,  As a proud member of a team, i rarely get involved in DTD etc but is great to make friends and get railed and rail fellow members.

    Interesting topic to start a debate but probably angled all wrong

    as the saying goes, if its not broken dont try to fix it!
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    I suspect it's too far gone now. Teams are fun. Dictatorships less so.
    Posted by Eyeman
    I agree, why do you think I left THS?! Sorry Dave ;)

    If you're that bothered, then why don't TKP snap him up?
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  • GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,203
    edited January 2015
    The problem arises here when Sky has allowed anyone to set up teams,

    I see this as more the solution than a problem. If someone doesn't like the team they are in any more they might be able to join another, or set up one of their own. sanctions of chat, forum and poker bans will still exist for anyone falling too far out of line from the community's point of view, and forum rules can adapt to cope with mob behaviour, regardless of whether it is team inspired or not.

    imho the responsibility lies with the individuals, not with the team. 
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams : I agree, why do you think I left THS?! Sorry Dave ;) If you're that bothered, then why don't TKP snap him up?
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    hmmmmmmmmmmm.........lol!!

    I thought we'd dropped all that??

    truth is you could not be more wrong, but have your lil' public Dig!!

    on me, X

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  • ommomm Member Posts: 444
    edited January 2015
    In Response to The Case Against Teams:
    Teams have been on Skypoker for a while now, but there's a few things that make them inappropriate in my opinion, and Sky may want to reconsider them. I speak as someone who has been in a team (TKP) for a few years, and enjoy the cameraderie that the team engenders. We all know poker is an individual game, and that's acknowledged by all teams. I haven't seen collusion, and it's nothing to do with that. The problem arises here when Sky has allowed anyone to set up teams, styling themselves as "captains" etc without anyone checking to see how those teams are run, who can or can't join a team and who makes the decision as to who is "in" or "out" for whatever reason. Now, if there wasn't any reward for teams, it wouldn't be relevant or any of Sky's concern about team politics and the in-fighting that can go on when any group of people get together with any sort of hierarchy system. However, Sky DOES offer team prizes, and so indirectly they encourage and condone the pettiness that can and does occur. I think the DTD competition is a great idea. It has brought about a great community spirit, and the teams really get behind their players. Think on this, would it have been any different if Sky had nominated teams, and DTD players were assigned a team randomly in order? Not only would it take away this hierarchy, but it would also mean that all teams would have roughly equal numbers (clearly some people would register with a team, then never or rarely play so slight inequities could exist over time, but that can be remedied when new players join). They could still have facebook pages, and team spirit, but no-one could be removed on the whim of a single person (whether warranted or not). Surely Sky should be deciding who can or can't win prizes, not team captains? I'm not saying I'm right, but am opening up a discussion. There's been some unsavoury incidents from time to time, and maybe that's just human nature, but give someone a little power, and they can behave in very strange ways.
    Posted by Eyeman

    My understanding is that DTD is an individual competition and that the team element was added at a later date and run entirely separate to the original DTD, I may be wrong of course?

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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
    Interesting OP Graham.

    I will Comment later on points as just busy earning a Living at present!
    Importantly TEAMS are Independant of Sky!! But if run well, Sky support their Aims for mutual benifit!

    Poker Team HitSquad, as Capo,  is a Hobby to me, & For Others, for Fun! [As I already Run, Own a Thriving Business Outside of Poker].


    IMPORTANT FUN!!!!!!!!!!..I think Best that way!!!

    Now you have to work at anything to keep it Strong, stay Focused, Disciplined, Ethical, and after 4 Years, 150+Members, Much Success, including Winning The APAT National Team Championships, i think we doing something rite!

    The Monday Forum DTD has Dovetailed well, & been complimented by Teams, 80-90% of regged runnrrs are Team Players No!

    All to your Own..

    Well-Run Teams will Flourish as current Ones are...
    Not so well Run Teams will fade away or Implode as has happened!!

    ....Laws of Human Jungle as Business' Or Footll clubs for instance.



    I Personally Try to Support all Other Teams that want it, as with FOSP etc, dispite what a minor few may imply!

    Wow, said more than i thought...
    Will add small points later.

    GL All!!



    Heil Hitman........Fack, Ooooppsss, just a slip I promise!!
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    In Response to The Case Against Teams : My understanding is that DTD is an individual competition and that the team element was added at a later date and run entirely separate to the original DTD, I may be wrong of course?
    Posted by omm

    Yes Omm Mate

    Forum DTD Was started By Michael DTW on cusp 2010/11, from memory, I started the Team League in May 2011, bolted on to it after asking admins DTW & Scousered, who were only too plaesed as we immeidiatley nearl;y trebled numbers.

    Was Challenge between HitSquad & TKP, but we then had others ask to join in TPT & 51 first

    It was a Success both Leagues Complementing each other, numbers going up fro 20-30 to 125+ quiclky.

    Michael then asked Me  Maxally to help him on Indidvidual DTD too, which we did for close 3 years, till i stepped out as Busy in other areas!


    I & HitSquad, will always support Michaels DTW's DTD League as prived bu Us provided the Most Loyal Players overs Years as others have proved too!!
    I hope all facts above are close correct, Michael will say if not, thanks mate.

    Heil Hitman!!

    Jeez!!

    ..must stop that....
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams:
    In Response to Re: The Case Against Teams : I'm not entirely sure what you are wanting. The team format seems to have worked, and is working, fine for years. Are you requesting that Sky allocate the teams? Or meddle in them somewhat? So just a load of randoms get lumped together? In all honesty there are no cons in my eyes. People will fall out, and people will come and go, this is normal for any team and hardly exclusive to Sky Poker. Sky meddling in the teams would probably cause and escalate any problems. I know what has brought this on btw. Granted, not that thread, but I know. Nothing like making a mountain out of a molehill.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Good above points H!!

    But I've Highlited???, Coz I dont Know whats brought this on?? Pray Tell or pm me??
    Have I done summat wrong, why my name was brought up??

    If I not involved in whatever GREAT, lets keep it that way pls, as I got enuf on !!
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
    oppppps forgot.......HH
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  • EyemanEyeman Member Posts: 1,039
    edited January 2015
    My point is not really specific, but general, and as I say way after the event, and so probably too late. I have nothing but admiration for you, Dave and THS.
    Let's however take a scanario when someone (let's say me) starts a team, but I don't like black people or gay people or gingers or women or a certain religion or people who look at me in a funny way. Is it OK that I can run my team thus?
    I may not advertise that's how I do it, but I could still do so. No-one would be any the wiser.
    Surely that's wrong. 
    An original random assignment would have been much better, as there could be no cases as above. I'm not for a second saying that any of that is going on, but it could do.
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
     I Understand Graham, I respect You also, even tho we sometimes disagree, but always have fun & drink when we meet!!

    I started my Team by accident, just 3/4 of Us going to Pub games in West london & Iver, I was known as 'The Hitman' from Footie, & they started calling us The HitSquad, it took off after we went to Luton SPT, my first Big Live Game!

    Listen...
    I dont like Poker Players, I dont let any in, lol, why we are succesful!!


    Just feel Your OP is not getting at real issue.

    Obviously somthing has happened, but it has nothing to do with ALL THE Teams & Members.
    Issues between 3/4 clashing Poker Ego's have nothing to do with the 300+ Members of Teams who enjoy DTD Mondays & other great Events!!
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV Member Posts: 8,688
    edited January 2015
    as per Darwins Theory of Evolution, & Hitmans Law of Life!


    ...........The Strong, Clever will Evolve & Succeed in a selected enviroment, others will/may Fail.
    Sky cannot Force folk to 'get on' or form Teams, Groups Together, they will evolve Naturally...

    .......and unfortunately in this Troll-Infested Modern Cyber World, you will always gets Knockers of Success & Folk up there in limelight!!

    I dont mind Some Knockers!!




    They can be Good....I like 2 Big Ones, On the Front of My Women!!!


    Kiddin, XX
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