When no options appeal.

hhyftrftdr

X	Small blind		1250.00	1250.00	62988.00
hhyftrftdr	Big blind		2500.00	3750.00	119431.00
	Your hole cards	J J
MattBates	Fold
Donovon	Raise		5110.00	8860.00	103149.50
samkoh	Fold
OldemH	Call		5110.00	13970.00	82917.00
X	Call		3860.00	17830.00	59128.00
hhyftrftdr	Raise		16590.00	34420.00	102841.00
Donovon	Fold
OldemH	Fold
X	Call		13980.00	48400.00	45148.00
Flop
		K 8 7
X	Check

Me?

Mini Roller last night. Details are sketchy as I'd been on the sauce all day but we are ITM, though not particularly far in, maybe 20 left of which I'd be about 5th at the moment.

Think I've only been on the table for a couple of orbits, villain is not a name I recognise so playing read and historyless.

Hate betting, but also hate checking....thoughts?

Essexphil

In Response to When no options appeal.:

X  Small blind   1250.00 1250.00 62988.00 hhyftrftdr Big blind   2500.00 3750.00 119431.00   Your hole cards J J       MattBates Fold         Donovon Raise   5110.00 8860.00 103149.50 samkoh Fold         OldemH Call   5110.00 13970.00 82917.00 X  Call   3860.00 17830.00 59128.00 hhyftrftdr Raise   16590.00 34420.00 102841.00 Donovon Fold         OldemH Fold         X  Call   13980.00 48400.00 45148.00 Flop     K 8 7       X  Check       Me? Mini Roller last night. Details are sketchy as I'd been on the sauce all day but we are ITM, though not particularly far in, maybe 20 left of which I'd be about 5th at the moment. Think I've only been on the table for a couple of orbits, villain is not a name I recognise so playing read and historyless. Hate betting, but also hate checking....thoughts?
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Norm villain-dependant, and no reads, so tricky.

To shove would be bad, as only called by better hands. Mixture of check/betting half pot, probably more often the latter....

jordz16

What would you do if you had AK?? just play it like that, id personally be 1/4-1/2 pot betting here whether i had, kk or aq in this spot, its not a flop where he can really check shove on you with big equity so id put in a little bet and see what happens... last thing you wanna do is check and see another overcard hit

Lambert180

I think given stack sizes, i.e. villian has less than a PSB left on flop I'd check back 100% of hands here that I'd 3b.

MattBates

In Response to Re: When no options appeal.:

I think given stack sizes, i.e. villian has less than a PSB left on flop I'd check back 100% of hands here that I'd 3b.
Posted by Lambert180

This for me

F_Ivanovic

^ Really? I just don't see the point to try and balance our range too much by always checking when villain is clearly not very good (just flats in SB then cold calls 3b with just under 1/3 of his stack in?) 

What do we do when villain checks back flop and then the turn is a 6s or 9h or anything that brings a draw? Stack size becomes awkward now where we can't really bet small so we pretty much have to commit ourselves with a bet. What do we do if villain bets on the flop? We don't have a lot of information on his range or tendencies in this spot - are we just c/folding?

I agree with Jordz although wouldn't go near 1/2 pot. It's pretty much the worst flop sizing we can have because it just looks so strong and villain probably isn't shoving many hands worse than Kx. 13-15k is more than enough and again I'd be betting this sizing with nearly my whole range. I might check KK and a couple combos of AK (AKh and AKd) and maybe a couple bluffs. If villain ships vs this sizing, it's more likely he can have 8x, 7x or some draws. He doesn't need many combos at all of worse hands for b/c to be fine.

If villain just calls, at least the pot-size OTT will make our turn decision easier than with a whole PSB left behind.

Lambert180

We're often gonna be WAWB in this spot. I'm not checking because I think we're behind, I'm checking cos it's hard to get a call from worse, I'm going with my hand, it's just easy to GII without betting 3 streets and think we widen the range we get action from by checking flop whether we have JJ or KK here.

Given his action pre, 7x, 8x, are very unlikely (apart from when we're beat by 77/88), there's no FD, T9 is the only realistic draw he can have given action pre imo and even then he has to be really bad and it has to be just T9s imo so very few bad turn cards.

So I'm pretty happy on any turn card other than A/Q so we're happy on like 85% of turn cards and it vastly increases the chances of him just shipping any turn with air when we've checked flop.

hhyftrftdr

Thanks guys.

Fast forwarding the action on, I bet pretty small, just under 1/3 pot IIRC at around 14,500...maybe Bates remembers

Villain pretty much snap jammed on me. Bleurgh. I immediately hated myself for betting. In game, I thought checking back makes me look so much like JJ/QQ (remember I was half cut!), it wasn't until reflecting on the hand that I thought I might well check back KK, AA, AKs on this board, so felt with the benefit of hindsight that checking wasn't as bad a choice as I initially thought.

I'll probably get hammered, but I tank folded to his jam. There were just no draws he could feasibly get in, and I couldn't put him on a hand that I beat. I didn't know the villain, so no idea if he was capable of sensing weakness and turning 99/TT/A8s into a bluff with such a low SPR.

I knew he'd roll over KQ if I called and make me look a mug

mrsduck

Pretty nice spot to go to the takeaway IMO.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: When no options appeal.:

Pretty nice spot to go to the takeaway IMO.
Posted by mrsduck

BanterDuck in the house!

mrsduck

In Response to Re: When no options appeal.:

In Response to Re: When no options appeal. : BanterDuck in the house!
Posted by hhyftrftdr

!

rancid

Check turn