HELP

millwise11

This pretty much knocked me out of lastnites £2500 mini bad play on my part or unlucky this keeps happening help please

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
ALLIN93	Small blind		20.00	20.00	2470.00
millwise11	Big blind		40.00	60.00	4980.00
	Your hole cards	Q Q
playgame	Fold
doublen	Fold
BARADAKAS	Fold
Joey898	Raise		80.00	140.00	4410.00
ALLIN93	Fold
millwise11	Raise		200.00	340.00	4780.00
Joey898	Call		160.00	500.00	4250.00
Flop
		2 J 3
millwise11	Bet		120.00	620.00	4660.00
Joey898	Raise		675.00	1295.00	3575.00
millwise11	Raise		1430.00	2725.00	3230.00
Joey898	All-in		3575.00	6300.00	0.00
millwise11	All-in		3230.00	9530.00	0.00
millwise11	Unmatched bet		530.00	9000.00	530.00
millwise11	Show	Q Q
Joey898	Show	A 2
Turn
		A
River
		A
Joey898	Win	Full House, Aces and 2s	9000.00		9000.00

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jordz16

I dont think you played the hand very well, but on the other hand the other guy played the hand far worse.

preflop, in my opinion you need to be raising bigger to between 250-350

on the flop you need to be betting bigger, between 1/2 and 3/4 pot

once you get raised you are still likely to be ahead, but you need to be more cautious.... this isnt a very good example, but in the long run once you reraise him on the flop id say 80-90% of the time he will only be shoving with hands that either crush you or have loads of equity, ie sets and A4 spades 56 spades etc...

once you get raised id say the best line of play would have been to just call, and if it comes a safe card then would be a good time to get your chips in

the way the hand played out though it was just very unlucky, i think when the money went in you were about 80% fav and if you continue doing that you will win far more than you lose

gl

BigBluster

In Response to Re: HELP:

I dont think you played the hand very well, but on the other hand the other guy played the hand far worse. preflop, in my opinion you need to be raising bigger to between 250-350 on the flop you need to be betting bigger, between 1/2 and 3/4 pot 
Posted by jordz16

This is very important. It's easy to think 'What difference does it make if I raise 120 or 350' but look at it from the villain's viewpoint. He'll probably call pre (based on what I've seen of the rest of the hand), but will he really call a 600 bet on the flop? If he does and outdraws you, then good luck to him. But make him pay.

Also, you got very unlucky.

PS: The one aspect I disagree slightly with Jordz is that I'd make it 400 pre-flop. Theoretically, the villain needs 2:1 odds with Ax against your queens, and 250 is just about the minimum to deprive him of the correct odds. This is very minor though when considered against the points that jordz raises.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: HELP:

In Response to  Re: HELP : This is very important. It's easy to think 'What difference does it make if I raise 120 or 350' but look at it from the villain's viewpoint. He'll probably call pre (based on what I've seen of the rest of the hand), but will he really call a 600 bet on the flop? If he does and outdraws you, then good luck to him. But make him pay. Also, you got very unlucky. PS: The one aspect I disagree slightly with Jordz is that I'd make it 400 pre-flop. Theoretically, the villain needs 2:1 odds with Ax against your queens, and 250 is just about the minimum to deprive him of the correct odds. This is very minor though when considered against the points that jordz raises.
Posted by BigBluster

Not sure how relevant the BIB is. Villain doesn't know they are up against QQ, just like hero doesn't know they are up against Ax. You wanna size it according to a perceived range, of which I imagine that is pretty wide coming from the a button open.

Fine line between getting people to make incorrect calls vs betting them off their hand.

I'd certainly look to raise a bit more pre, we want value and we're gonna have to play out of position so that should bump the price up a bit.
The flop bet is pointless at that size. Should be much bigger.

Runout is pretty unfortunate.

BigBluster

In Response to Re: HELP:

You wanna size it according to a perceived range, of which I imagine that is pretty wide coming from the a button open. Fine line between getting people to make incorrect calls vs betting them off their hand. 
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Agree. The distinctions here are quite minor - Jordz recommended 250-350, I suggested 400. We're all agreed that 120 was a mistake, but in order to advise the OP what would you recommend?

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: HELP:

In Response to Re: HELP : Agree. The distinctions here are quite minor - Jordz recommended 250-350, I suggested 400. We're all agreed that 120 was a mistake, but in order to advise the OP what would you recommend?
Posted by BigBluster

Can't see the HH properly, but appears that both are pretty deep? North of 100bb each I think.

About 300 total feels in the right ballpark.

I think the flop bet sizing is the bigger mistake. If hero had a read that villain will go crazy facing a weak bet then fair enough. But in a vacuum, villain is getting a great price to call with anything that could outdraw us; flush draw, straights, Jx. These hands will pay more than whatever that bet was to see the turn card.

If the tactic was to look weak (there is a time and a place for this, but not here IMO), then you really give the game away by then re-raising on the flop. I'm amazed you got A2 all in with bottom pair, but this is Sky

millwise11

Thanks guys for the advice looking back now at hand your right defo raising to little on this occasion 

mumsie

Hi Millwise.

Before I start  ,im just a beginner and I do say and think many wrong things, im just trying to improve . So with that in mind heres my view.

Qs Qh v Ac 2c is 67% v 33% (using an app on my phone)



So your QQ is going to get beat a third of the time, two Aces hitting the board makes it seem so much more unfair.
But its just another one of the 33% that beat you .

 Other hands that suck out on  you are club flush hands, (except a few straight flush hands, which you share the pot).  Most Axxxx boards beat you.
Sometimes 222 is going to flop and its like WFT!!!.

My point is, a lot of the 33% hands will be a kick in the teeth and others a kick in the teeth and a poke in the eye.


Flop = Js 2s 3d.

Your hand gets better, 79% v 21 % , villain has lost all her flush hands and  you’re  still ahead.

As has been said by better players, you don’t know the BTN raiser has Ac 2c , they could have say As 6s which is almost 60% 40% on this board . He could have JJ which makes him 88% v 12% .

So,  bet sizing is important, on this  flop, to price out many of the drawing hands/ worse hands villain could have. 2/3 to ¾ of the pot do this. ( I think)

Preflop, I tend to 3 bet out of positon (OOP) an amount that is 3x the raisers bet, plus a bit more , because im OOP.

millwise11

In Response to Re: HELP:

Hi Millwise. Before I start  ,im just a beginner and I do say and think many wrong things, im just trying to improve . So with that in mind heres my view. Qs Qh v Ac 2c is 67% v 33% (using an app on my phone) So your QQ is going to get beat a third of the time, two Aces hitting the board makes it seem so much more unfair. But its just another one of the 33% that beat you .  Other hands that suck out on  you are club flush hands, (except a few straight flush hands, which you share the pot).  Most Axxxx boards beat you. Sometimes 222 is going to flop and its like WFT!!!. My point is, a lot of the 33% hands will be a kick in the teeth and others a kick in the teeth and a poke in the eye. Flop = Js 2s 3d. Your hand gets better, 79% v 21 % , villain has lost all her flush hands and  you’re  still ahead. As has been said by better players, you don’t know the BTN raiser has Ac 2c , they could have say As 6s which is almost 60% 40% on this board . He could have JJ which makes him 88% v 12% . So,  bet sizing is important, on this  flop, to price out many of the drawing hands/ worse hands villain could have. 2/3 to ¾ of the pot do this. ( I think) Preflop, I tend to 3 bet out of positon (OOP) an amount that is 3x the raisers bet, plus a bit more , because im OOP.
Posted by mumsie

Hi mumsie thanks for your help much appreciated I am happy with my pre flop raise it was a 3 bet just looking back at my raise after flop and it is way to low maybe I would of got him off hand if I had at least half pot raised but to be honest the way he/ she was playing I don't think anything would of got rid of him/her and the rest is just poker I suppose but still hurts

Matt237

As played its fine to get it in but you gotta bet bigger on the flop. 3bet size pre was to 240 which is fine tbh

F_Ivanovic

Yeah it's not about giving correct odds to Ax pre but more to do with giving villain correct implied odds against a tight range. When we are OOP, we generally want to 3b slightly larger than IP so 275-300 would be better, but there's nothing wrong with 240 if we're up against a weak opponent. 

mumsie

i dont think i quite read HH's correctly.
when i see the 3 bet as 200 . i assume the raise is 200 , everyone seems to agree the raise is 240. I always get things wrong in forums. ALWAYS.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: HELP:

i dont think i quite read HH's correctly. when i see the 3 bet as 200 . i assume the raise is 200 , everyone seems to agree the raise is 240. I always get things wrong in forums. ALWAYS.
Posted by mumsie

The raise kinda is 200, as it's another 200 going on top of the compulsory 40 already in the middle. It's fine margins, but I would raise slightly more as I said, for various reasons including position, where the raise came from and the stack depths.

rancid

Can not see whole hand but u have QQ

Loving flop

Get it in