Tricky spot deep in 15k!

BadGrandma

	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
BadGrandma	Small blind		1,000.00	1,000.00	80,135.00
Villain	Big blind		2,000.00	3,000.00	102,450.50
	Your hole cards	10 7
MattBates	Fold
SoLack	Fold
tattersa06	Fold
JCordy	Raise		4,000.00	7,000.00	78,613.00
BadGrandma	Raise		7,898.00	14,898.00	72,237.00
Villain	Call		6,898.00	21,796.00	95,552.50
JCordy	Call		4,898.00	26,694.00	73,715.00
Flop
		3 5 3
BadGrandma	Bet		8,000.00	34,694.00	64,237.00
Villain	Call		8,000.00	42,694.00	87,552.50
JCordy	Fold
Turn
		7
BadGrandma	Check
Villain	Bet		21,347.00	64,041.00	66,205.50
BadGrandma	Call		21,347.00	85,388.00	42,890.00
River
		10
BadGrandma	Bet		21,000.00	106,388.00	21,890.00
Villain	Call		21,000.00	127,388.00	45,205.50
BadGrandma	Show	10 7
Villain	Show	?
Villain

BadGrandma

Vilain was tight and insta called the 3 bet.

Reason for betting the river was for value against 6's 8's and 9's but I feel Villains bet on the turn was perhaps stronger so it left me in a very difficult spot with the board being paired.

My question is how would you play this post flop? I don't mind my 3 bet.. this is my style although the sizing should be a little larger. It is the flop, turn and river play that I can't decide how it should be played.

Thanks

alex1229

Dont like the 3 bet pre, or the big bet on the river.

FeelGroggy

My default would be to fold this hand but I can understand 3betting if the BB is tight as you say we can expect mostly folds and will win the hand postflop more often than not if the button peels.
On that flop we're cbetting pretty much 100% of our range and I doubt he has floats in his range as he's tight, you have an uncapped range as the PFR and there's someone to act behind him so he probably has mostly middle-high pocket pairs 8's-jacks with queens sometimes and the occassional flush draw.
On the turn if we lead we don't get value from much so I agree that checking is a fine play, however if we had a premium like AA or KK in this spot we're never checking so it really caps our range and when he bets half pot it gives us a decent price to improve to the winner so I understand calling.
I think another option is to lead small so that we can still have all the big hands and we give ourselves a decent price to hit out draw, maybe something like 14k and it gives us the option to jam on scary cards for him like queens, kings, aces, maybe jam low spades too and bet small on big spades say 20-25k
As played when we check call its tough whether to lead for thin value from 8's and 9's or just check fold if he bets as I think he checks back hands we beat.

pr1nnyraid

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k!:

My default would be to fold this hand but I can understand 3betting if the BB is tight as you say we can expect mostly folds and will win the hand postflop more often than not if the button peels. On that flop we're cbetting pretty much 100% of our range and I doubt he has floats in his range as he's tight, you have an uncapped range as the PFR and there's someone to act behind him so he probably has mostly middle-high pocket pairs 8's-jacks with queens sometimes and the occassional flush draw. On the turn if we lead we don't get value from much so I agree that checking is a fine play, however if we had a premium like AA or KK in this spot we're never checking so it really caps our range and when he bets half pot it gives us a decent price to improve to the winner so I understand calling. I think another option is to lead small so that we can still have all the big hands and we give ourselves a decent price to hit out draw, maybe something like 14k and it gives us the option to jam on scary cards for him like queens, kings, aces, maybe jam low spades too and bet small on big spades say 20-25k As played when we check call its tough whether to lead for thin value from 8's and 9's or just check fold if he bets as I think he checks back hands we beat.
Posted by FeelGroggy

You have to give him credit for floating some of the time imo.. he might be tight but if he has a conceptual idea of tournament poker this would be quite an obv spot to float, even with a player behind. 

I actually disagree that we must C bet here 100% of the time. 

Checking flop to c/r or c/c might seem like a horrible play, but I think it would actually strengthen your range given the situation (all be it you would be a little polarised) and would be my preferred choice in this spot. Then again I try to avoid marginal spots OOP as I dont think they are necessary on this site. 

Checking flop also gives you more manouverability on later streets with SPR. 

As played I think I would prefer to crai on turn. If it got to river as played I would c/f. 

LARSON7

As you said 3 bet a bit more pre (or mostly fold pre)

On the Turn bet ~15k. Jam quite a lot of rivers,

Meh it just looks like he has jacks, or (Queens!!) when he calls our river bet.

As played on the river, think I am check/ folding, but expect it to go check check a high % of the time OTR. 

F_Ivanovic

If BTN is loos(ish) then 3b pre is fine. I find lots of people are quite nitty OTB (maybe that's just cause I 3b a lot lol) but I tend to re-adjust by giving people credit for BTN opens and don't tend to 3b that many bluffs. 

Post-flop I think flop c-bet is fine. It's a flop I'm c/giving up with plenty of hands so I think betting some FD's to balance with our high pairs is mandatory. Turn I like the c/c. We don't get called by much, if any, worse when we bet and we aren't folding out better. Nor do we need much protection. 

The worst street by far is the river. 99 might call but JJ and QQ are almost certainly going to call for that price. So we're not bluffing and we're not really value betting given there isn't enough worse that call (you suggest in OP that it was for value against 88 and 66 but a tight player is never flatting 66 to a 3b and is rarely flatting 88. If they do, then there's a good chance that folds by the turn)

Lambert180

3b pre is fine/good, but OOP especially this deep we have to go bigger, prob around 12k total.

Flop is good, turn c/c is good. I don't like the river donk, I prob check/decide.

Fwiw, it is a tell of some sort usually that he's used the half pot button on turn. Most good players dont use the fixed betting buttons post flop, and it often means something from weaker players, could be 1/2 pot = marginal/bluff and 3/4 pot = value, no idea here because that's player dependent but food for thought.

FeelGroggy

I think the river spot there are likely more hands that beat us than hands we beat and even if we thought it was close it's better to miss thin value and maintain some playability on 21bb then bet and sometimes get an extra 20k and the other times be reduced to a shoving stack on 10bb. 

What was his actual hand? I'm gonna guess jj

BadGrandma

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k:

I think the river spot there are likely more hands that beat us than hands we beat and even if we thought it was close it's better to miss thin value and maintain some playability on 21bb then bet and sometimes get an extra 20k and the other times be reduced to a shoving stack on 10bb.  What was his actual hand? I'm gonna guess jj
Posted by FeelGroggy

Yes Villain snap called with QQ and crippled me down to 10bb so I think you're right about leaving a playable stack size behind FeelGroggy rather than going for thin value. I should have check/folded the river (they may likely have checked behind on the river too)

Thanks for the input guys, this hand just seemed foggy to me when I 1st looked at it.


Side note is I really think if Sky poker had an extended time bar I wouldn't have made this mistake, You just get such little time in these situations.

mumsie

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k:

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k : Yes Villain snap called with QQ and crippled me down to 10bb so I think you're right about leaving a playable stack size behind FeelGroggy rather than going for thin value. I should have check/folded the river (they may likely have checked behind on the river too) Thanks for the input guys, this hand just seemed foggy to me when I 1st looked at it. Side note is I really think if Sky poker had an extended time bar I wouldn't have made this mistake, You just get such little time in these situations.
Posted by BadGrandma

If they ever do extend it , im asking for enough time to post a question and wait for replies .

MattBates

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k:

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k : Yes Villain snap called with QQ and crippled me down to 10bb so I think you're right about leaving a playable stack size behind FeelGroggy rather than going for thin value. I should have check/folded the river (they may likely have checked behind on the river too) Thanks for the input guys, this hand just seemed foggy to me when I 1st looked at it. Side note is I really think if Sky poker had an extended time bar I wouldn't have made this mistake, You just get such little time in these situations.
Posted by BadGrandma

I don't know what hand calls you given description of opponent and the action. 

 

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k:

In Response to Re: Tricky spot deep in 15k : I don't know what hand calls you given description of opponent and the action.   
Posted by MattBates

Pocket 99's, duh :P