River Decision - Full House with trips on board

YoungUn

This is a live Tournament in my local in Bristol. £45 with one re-entry, 15k starting stack and 30 min blinds. We're about 3 minutes + 3 additional hands when the clock runs down away from the first break, which is when the re-entry period ends. Only info I have on villain is a hand we played earlier, 5,10,7 rainbow flop, 5 turn and J river, I had 89 for a rivered straight. Villain was first to act and bet 1,100 (can't remember exact pot size, but pretty sure this was around 75% pot bet), middle guy folded, I made it 2,500 and villain immediately says "89?", folds a few seconds later and then announces he had 54 spades in a very similar way to an old hand from the WSOP ME involving Daniel Negreanu (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boJqLBAamZ4 - skip to 2:45 if you don't wanna watch all of it). The way he announced his hand, the fact that I checked back the turn in position and how he folded so quickly though being offered a good price, made me just simply not believe him and that he was just taking a stab at the pot.

Anyway, to the hand. Blinds are 100/200, I open from UTG+2 to 500 with two 10s, the hi-jack, cut-off, button and both blinds all call - villain is BB. Flop is 777. Checked to me, I bet 1,600, all fold to villain who calls. Turn is offsuit 3, so rainbow board, check check. River is a 10, villain bets 3,500. This was a few weeks ago now so forgive me for missing some of the important details, but I think I had about 8-11k behind as I faced that river bet. Villain had me covered by 3-5k I think.

I don't want to say too much more about what I was thinking because it'll probably give away the action, but suffice to say that folding is not an option that i'm considering (i've got the 2nd nuts!). 

MattBates

People don't like folding full houses and he can re enter so I would be wagering all my chips

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

People don't like folding full houses and he can re enter so I would be wagering all my chips
Posted by MattBates

Having a full house with 55 on a 777xx board is hugely different to having a FH with 55 on a 599xx board. One of them is really hard to fold, the other not so much. 

Worth noting that villain flat BB so probably doesn't have many overpairs in his range (maybe all JJ combos and a couple QQ at most) Tx is really improbable given only 1 left in the deck and villain called flop. So his range has lots of 88 and 99 that might be capable of b/f to a shove. Overall it's sort of dependant if he can b/f 88-99 hands and how many overpairs he can have in his range (which prob never b/f) on whether there is value in shoving or going for a smaller raise size. I think given rebuy and how bad lots of live players are it's probably better to just jam.

GELDY

the flat pre on a multi-called board could be atc in the BB so the case 7 is defo in range and consistent with the betting.

pp 88 and above could easily have squeezed pre, JJ+ should always have raised. difficult to see many hands that would call a shove other than the one you don't want to see. but it is a re-entry ........

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

the flat pre on a multi-called board could be atc in the BB so the case 7 is defo in range and consistent with the betting. pp 88 and above could easily have squeezed pre, JJ+ should always have raised. difficult to see many hands that would call a shove other than the one you don't want to see. but it is a re-entry ........
Posted by GELDY

He can have the case 7, but he can also have all pairs up to and including JJ, maybe sometimes even QQ, he can (though unlikely) have Tx, he can be trying to steal on the river after the perceived weakness on the turn. Loads of combos of hands we beat, including some that may sigh pay us off.

Think its an easy shove and if he has quads you better get that wallet out!

YoungUn

Appreciate the feedback folks. 

I made quite a few mistakes here really. Firstly while checking the turn back my thoughts were "calling pretty much any river bet", but didn't consider if a 10 peeled off. When it came it surprised me and suddenly I thought "Oooh, i'm beating a couple more hands here" and started thinking about shoving. I probably didn't spend long enough thinking about it either, was more or less thinking "meh, if he's got it then we can just re-enter", so I shoved and he insta-called with 97. My final (or maybe first) mistake was that I assumed I had enough cash on me for the re-entry - which I didn't. So I didn't re-enter in the end, even though I could have just withdrew some cash. 

Maybe i'm being results orientated but having thought about it some more in the fullness of time I feel it should have just been a call. Particularly if he really did fold the 54 spades in the earlier hand - he's always going to fold anything we're beating. I checked back the turn to call river bet and frankly the 10 didn't really change that much (i'd be amazed if he called the flop bey with 33). I feel he could have played JJ or QQ that way but it's most likely has 99 or 88 which probably doesn't call a shove, or quads and i'm out. 

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

Appreciate the feedback folks.  I made quite a few mistakes here really. Firstly while checking the turn back my thoughts were "calling pretty much any river bet", but didn't consider if a 10 peeled off. When it came it surprised me and suddenly I thought "Oooh, i'm beating a couple more hands here" and started thinking about shoving. I probably didn't spend long enough thinking about it either, was more or less thinking "meh, if he's got it then we can just re-enter", so I shoved and he insta-called with 97. My final (or maybe first) mistake was that I assumed I had enough cash on me for the re-entry - which I didn't. So I didn't re-enter in the end, even though I could have just withdrew some cash.  Maybe i'm being results orientated but having thought about it some more in the fullness of time I feel it should have just been a call. Particularly if he really did fold the 54 spades in the earlier hand - he's always going to fold anything we're beating. I checked back the turn to call river bet and frankly the 10 didn't really change that much (i'd be amazed if he called the flop bey with 33). I feel he could have played JJ or QQ that way but it's most likely has 99 or 88 which probably doesn't call a shove, or quads and i'm out. 
Posted by YoungUn

I'd say its definitely, not maybe

GELDY

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board : I'd say its definitely, not maybe
Posted by hhyftrftdr

On line maybe

Not so much live 

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board : On line maybe Not so much live 
Posted by GELDY

Live £45 rebuy, just before it closes for rebuys?

Ez shove. Live players can be so bad that it makes me even more inclined to shove.

GELDY

He said it was a re entry

not a re buy

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

He said it was a r e entry not a re buy
Posted by GELDY

Oooohhh I can tell how much you loved that.

Re-entry, rebuy, meh all the same in this scenario. He has no chips if villain has quads. So YG can choose to re-enter if he desires, or put another way, he can choose to rebuy another starting stack.

Semantics

GELDY

I play a lot of both

And they play very differently

I agree with you if it was a rebuy

But not for a re entry

Nothing personal

Just my opinion on the hand

PS I initially thought he was talking about a re buy given the last 3 hands comment which is more typical for a rebuy than a re entry. However it's clearly stated one re entry 

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

I play a lot of both And they play very differently I agree with you if it was a rebuy But not for a re entry Nothing personal Just my opinion on the hand PS I initially thought he was talking about a re buy given the last 3 hands comment which is more typical for a rebuy than a re entry. However it's clearly stated one re entry 
Posted by GELDY

I'm just pulling your leg Geldy.

Though 3mins from the end of being able to use your re-entry, and 3 mins from the end of the rebuy period (assuming rebuy is for SS) essentially makes them one and the same.

GELDY

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board:

In Response to Re: River Decision - Full House with trips on board : I'm just pulling your leg Geldy. Though 3mins from the end of being able to use your re-entry, and 3 mins from the end of the rebuy period (assuming rebuy is for SS) essentially makes them one and the same.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

not the one's I play

rebuy has much smaller spr and double addon

and plays way looser, especially in the last three minutes

Lambert180

Just a very easy shove imo, live or online.