Some pl08 hints tips wanted

churchy18 · November 2015

Most will know i have been playing pl08 for quite a while and been up and down on my results and think it is about time i tried learning a bit more.

Iwould like too know some other players thoughts on how/what too play/or not and when/how too do it or the best time too try it and why.

So got a few hands that i would like some help/advice on how/what i should do different and any other advive any1 is willing too give.

Hopefully others will post some hands and advice for new players and help build the pl08 base even more.

Thanks in advance for any replies/hands posted.

1st hand.. 2 me its a simple decison too put it in as i have a good high and have a cheeky lo also im pretty sure i will go h/up v a very loose player in ssssss am i right or should i be limping in or folding..

And after that on the turn should i fold or call.. should i be giving up or continuing as i know he will chase/play any as he has a stack and i still think aces are good?

Hand History #971326377 (23:46 24/11/2015)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
noviceplay	Small blind		200.00	200.00	1425.00
bitofacoug	Big blind		400.00	600.00	8865.00
	Your hole cards	A 7 A 7
DavidCassi	Fold
sssssss	Raise		800.00	1400.00	20307.50
elleben2	Fold
churchy18	Raise		3000.00	4400.00	4520.00
noviceplay	Fold
bitofacoug	Fold
ssssssss	Call		2200.00	6600.00	18107.50
Flop
		10 Q 2
ssssss	Bet		6600.00	13200.00	11507.50
churchy18	All-in		4520.00	17720.00	0.00
Ak1r023	Unmatched bet		2080.00	15640.00	13587.50
ssssss	Show	5 Q K A
churchy18	Show	A 7 A 7
Turn
		10
River
		J
sssssss	Win high	Straight to the Ace	15640.00		29227.50
	No qualifying low hand

2nd hand
should i be limping this 1 or is it a straight fold/raise?
looking at action before me think player3 is calling/raising anything after limping in(know him well) but on other hand if it was not for him i would have shoved and probably put player1 out pre and won the pot even if player3 calls....so what too do?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
player1	Small blind		150.00	150.00	1965.00
player2	Big blind		300.00	450.00	10465.00
	Your hole cards	A 3 2 Q
player3	Call		300.00	750.00	3415.00
tonytinder	Fold
churchy18	Call		300.00	1050.00	5607.50
player1	Call		150.00	1200.00	1815.00
player2	Check
Flop
		9 6 J
player1	Check
player2	Check
player3	Check
churchy18	Bet		300.00	1500.00	5307.50
player1	Call		300.00	1800.00	1515.00
player2	Fold
player3	Call		300.00	2100.00	3115.00
Turn
		9
player1	Check
player3	Check
churchy18	Check
River
		2
player1	Check
player3	Check
churchy18	Check
player1	Show	K Q Q K
player3	Muck	8 3 A 8
churchy18	Muck	A 3 2 Q
player1	Win high	Two Pairs, Kings and 9s	2100.00		3615.00
	No qualifying low hand

Hand3
this hand should i be raising pre flop or checking as i did?

after the flop should i bet or check as i did and wait for the action and see how strong it is and having some good notes on p1 should i just call or shove like i did?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
paul312603	Small blind		25.00	25.00	2457.50
churchy18	Big blind		50.00	75.00	7055.00
	Your hole cards	J 4 A A
lokiii	Call		50.00	125.00	1365.00
p1	Call		50.00	175.00	2094.38
PEACEPAW	Call		50.00	225.00	1950.00
paul312603	Fold
churchy18	Check
Flop
		8 6 J
churchy18	Check
lokiii	Check
p1	Bet		225.00	450.00	1869.38
PEACEPAW	Fold
churchy18	Raise		900.00	1350.00	6155.00
lokiii	Fold
p1	All-in		1869.38	3219.38	0.00
churchy18	Call		1194.38	4413.76	4960.62
churchy18	Show	J 4 A A
p1	Show	9 10 K K
Turn
		9
River
		J
churchy18	Win high	Three Jacks	4413.76		9374.38
	No qualifying low hand

Hand4..
This one i should have known better looking back at it but as i said in the title hopefully if people help me it will help others as well.

Should i be limping into this 1 or just folding/raising straight away?

after flop gave me ttt now should i check/min bet as i did or raise bigger?

after river i should have just called?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
player1	Sit out
player2	Small blind		100.00	100.00	3280.00
player3	Big blind		200.00	300.00	3915.00
	Your hole cards	5 4 10 A
	Fold
	Fold
churchy18	Call		200.00	500.00	9587.50
player2	Call		100.00	600.00	3180.00
player3	Check
Flop
		10 Q 10
player2	Check
player3	Check
churchy18	Bet		400.00	1000.00	9187.50
player2	Call		400.00	1400.00	2780.00
player3	Fold
Turn
		A
player2	Check
churchy18	Bet		400.00	1800.00	8787.50
player2	Call		400.00	2200.00	2380.00
River
		4
player2	Bet		800.00	3000.00	1580.00
churchy18	Raise		3200.00	6200.00	5587.50
player2	All-in		1580.00	7780.00	0.00
churchy18	Unmatched bet		820.00	6960.00	6407.50
player2	Show	Q 2 Q J
churchy18	Show	5 4 10 A
player2	Win high	Full House, Queens and 10s	6960.00		6960.00
	No qualifying low hand

hand5
this 1 is more a question of should i or should i not shove (run really bad with aa hands or do i?)funny thing the mind/doubt

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
xx	Big blind		400.00	400.00	8865.00
	Your hole cards	A A 7 4
DavidCassi	Fold
tonytinder	Fold
churchy18	Call		400.00	800.00	5107.50
xx	Check
Flop
		3 9 10
xx	Check
churchy18	Check
Turn
		2
xx	Check
churchy18	Bet		400.00	1200.00	4707.50
xx	Call		400.00	1600.00	8465.00
River
		10
xx	Check
churchy18	Check
xx	Show	3 5 J 9
churchy18	Show	A A 7 4
churchy18	Win high	Two Pairs, Aces and 10s	1600.00		6307.50
	No qualifying low hand

hand6
this hand should i be shoving after player1 only limped in(not much info on him but seems too know basics) and player2 shoves not much info but seems a new pl08 player.

Flop
C_horse	Small blind		50.00	50.00	1200.00
churchy18	Big blind		100.00	150.00	1690.00
	Your hole cards	3 A J Q
p1	Call		100.00	250.00	1175.00
Smithy29	Fold
p2	Raise		450.00	700.00	195.00
mawmawmaw	Fold
C_horse	Fold
churchy18	Raise		1400.00	2100.00	290.00
p1	All-in		1175.00	3275.00	0.00
p2	All-in		195.00	3470.00	0.00
churchy18	Unmatched bet		225.00	3245.00	515.00
churchy18	Show	3 A J Q
p1	Show	A K 5 Q
p2	Show	3 2 8 7
		4 Q 2
Turn
		K
River
		3
p1	Win high	Straight to the 5	1622.50		1622.50
p1	Win low	5-low	1622.50		3245.00

Will post a few more 2morrow if any1 wants.

VespaPX · November 2015

Hi Bri

Just had a quick look at 1st hand.

I would fold that given your stack size.

I would raise it against a small stack though.

I used to over value AA but fold them after a raise most times now, unless i have a good low and one Ace is suited.

Have a look at some more tomorrow.

HENDRIK62 · November 2015

I have had a quick look at these Brian, and will comment, at work just now so it will be later on

HENDRIK62 · November 2015

Hand 1 - do you really want to be playing this hand against a player you have tagged as loose, the real strength in that holding is forcing a fold (with some equity back up, it is unlikely to improve much post flop), if the opponent is incapable of folding perhaps peeling and avoiding inflating the pot is the best way to proceed.

Hand 2 - you have button and a lovely hand with which to raise, I completely understand what you mean when you have a station limping in before you, but imo it is always a raise

Hand 3 - your analysis of this hand makes sense to me yet you did the complete opposite in hand 1, I would be way more inclined to raise this than hand 1, as played I think it was fine post flop.

Hand 4 - I prefer a raise here, once the flop comes and you are called I think I would try to go into CC mode and keep the pot small, I know some people will overplay a rivered flush but with a paired board unless they are super loose then your all in is only getting called by someone crushing you.

Hand 6 - this looks like a DYM so its an easy fold, I may peel in a tourney (and given how i bleed chips away at the moment, thats undoubtably a mistake).

Anyhow all that said you seemed to have a decent run last night.

For what its worth, as a side note there are a few players I tag red ( not telling you what it means ;-)) but I try to avoid playing too many pots with them, you are in that group along with some very good company.

Caveat; I reserve the right to revisit this post and change my mind about the analysis as often as the Scottish weather. ;-)

67Bhoys · November 2015

Hi mate,

on the 1st hand, you have AA, but rainbow cards, which lessens their value a lot, plus your best possible low is only 7 low, also you have no counterfeit backup card . Added to that you have no straight possibilities, so pre flop, although this looks like a premium hand, it shrinks to nothing if it doesn't hit the flop hard.

I think maybe calling the initial raise pre flop would be an option, unless you have info that the villain will often fold to a re-raise.

After the flop, you have nothing, no straight possible, no flush possible, no real low possible, plus you would need runner runner for a house. So I assume your banking on hitting an ace or a 7, though, we might assume given his raise pre, that he possibly holds an ace, but if not, an ace may bring in the straight for the villain.

2nd hand, I think calling is okay here early on in a tournament, primarily because again our cards are rainbow, which lessens our chances of hitting the high hand. In the latter stages, I'm raising to isolate and flip.

After the flop, I would just check, we have no real chance of winning the high, and we need runner runner for the low, so we are getting to look at the turn for free. If you were trying to steal the pot, then you would have to bet bigger, but i don't know what you were trying to achieve by betting 300 into so many opponents. It basically cost you 300 to see the turn, when you could have seen it for nowt.

Hand 4, I would probably raise in this spot when folded to me on the button. I am always wary when i raise after the flop in this spot and get called. what is calling on that flop, QQ obv or he could be holding a 10, anything else is just a drawing hand, JK AA KK etc. I agree with Hendo CC post flop.

GELDY · November 2015

H3 is much nicer than H1 preflop as you have flush and straight draws and a better low. This one you should be raising pre. You can then bet the flop with fold equity if anyone called you. On the flop as played someone pots it 4 ways while you've only hit it weakly? You have to assume you are not favourite any more so repotting seems rather optimistic. Call maybe in case he's just trying to steal and will therefore slow down, and re evaluate on the turn.

67Bhoys · November 2015

In Response to Re: Some pl08 hints tips wanted:

H3 is much nicer than H1 preflop as you have flush and straight draws and a better low. This one you should be raising pre. You can then bet the flop with fold equity if anyone called you. On the flop as played someone pots it 4 ways while you've only hit it weakly? You have to assume you are not favourite any more so repotting seems rather optimistic. Call maybe in case he's just trying to steal and will therefore slow down, and re evaluate on the turn.
Posted by GELDY

This save me analysing hand 3, totally agree.

_kagawa_ · November 2015

In Response to Re: Some pl08 hints tips wanted:

Hi mate, on the 1st hand, you have AA, but rainbow cards, which lessens their value a lot, plus your best possible low is only 7 low, also you have no counterfeit backup card . Added to that you have no straight possibilities, so pre flop, although this looks like a premium hand, it shrinks to nothing if it doesn't hit the flop hard. I think maybe calling the initial raise pre flop would be an option, unless you have info that the villain will often fold to a re-raise. After the flop, you have nothing, no straight possible, no flush possible, no real low possible, plus you would need runner runner for a house. So I assume your banking on hitting an ace or a 7, though, we might assume given his raise pre, that he possibly holds an ace, but if not, an ace may bring in the straight for the villain. 2nd hand, I think calling is okay here early on in a tournament, primarily because again our cards are rainbow, which lessens our chances of hitting the high hand. In the latter stages, I'm raising to isolate and flip. After the flop, I would just check, we have no real chance of winning the high, and we need runner runner for the low, so we are getting to look at the turn for free. If you were trying to steal the pot, then you would have to bet bigger, but i don't know what you were trying to achieve by betting 300 into so many opponents. It basically cost you 300 to see the turn, when you could have seen it for nowt. Hand 4, I would probably raise in this spot when folded to me on the button. I am always wary when i raise after the flop in this spot and get called. what is calling on that flop, QQ obv or he could be holding a 10, anything else is just a drawing hand, JK AA KK etc. I agree with Hendo CC post flop.
Posted by 67Bhoys

Hi Brian,

I am not going to comment on the hands above as the posts above seem spot on to me.

As I said so many times before to you I think you could be a excellent hilo player, dyms and mtt.

Why not flip your game completely for a week or so to see where it leads, the bolded above is where I think your weaknesses are, I feel you really overplay aces or even kings preflop especially if you a have low cards to go with them.

Of course its ok to raise with these cards but that doesn't mean your entitled to win the pot with them, maybe take your foot of the gas a bit down the streets and go into cc mode more often, think that would make an enormous difference to your game.

1 last thing the last bolded bit on 67bhoys post is without doubt the area where you lose most of your chips, on most occasions your going to get to the turn for free anyhow so again, flip your game, maybe check this from now on, basicically stop commiting yourself to the hand so early, there no harm going to the river!

Either way I wish you luck mate, and I very sure you will turn things around.

Kags

GELDY · November 2015

In Response to Re: Some pl08 hints tips wanted:

In Response to Re: Some pl08 hints tips wanted : This save me analysing hand 3, totally agree.
Posted by 67Bhoys

Likewise with your comments for H1

To be honest i was initially a little intimidated with the number of hands to comment on but you made me realise a good comment about just 1 hand would still be a positive contribution.

Talon · November 2015

Just had a quick look through the first 3 and have decided to put my worthless opinion in.

Hand 1) As far as i am concerned this is a simple decision between 2 actions raise or fold. When we look carefully at your hand you are only looking for a total of 4 outs to come in. All other cards are bad for you. And of those 4 outs you can hit all for of them set up a Lo that you can not beat. Which means by hitting you may well still only get half the pot. Calling is a bad option because unless you can hit one of your 4 outs without setting up a lo then you are probably just folding not knowing where you are. Getting it all in pre is fine but as shown here that didnt happen and you were left totally pot committed against someone who wasnt. So unless you can get them to fold dont rate raising too much. For me i would snap fold this hand. Looks good but way too difficult to win or improve with.

Hand 2) Struggling to figure out what you were trying to do here. Firstly your hand is what i would describe as a Lo only hand. This means you are chasing half the pot. This can only really work playing multiway against people who you think are Hi only chasers. The way the hand then plays out is strange, a ridiculous min bet bluff followed by shutting down. Hard to imagine what you expected especially after having nothng at any point.

Hand 3) For me this is another hand played totally the wrong way round. You are sat there with 3-4 times the stack of everyone else and a really strong starting hand. This waas the time to get aggressive and ask the questions. I would be more than happy to be getting it all in pre against any hand. When the flop comes down and it is not that great for you, you suddenly show maximum strength by check raising. For me both streets played the opposite of how they should have been.

Just a few thoughts there and probably will be argued with.

_kagawa_ · November 2015

In Response to Re: Some pl08 hints tips wanted:

In Response to Re: Some pl08 hints tips wanted : Likewise with your comments for H1 To be honest i was initially a little intimidated with the number of hands to comment on but you made me realise a good comment about just 1 hand would still be a positive contribution.
Posted by GELDY

This is a excellent point, and now I am regretting not making a positive comment, but I feel that along with mick (vespa)
we have played an awful lot with brian over the last 3 years or so, I remember a particular week where he was involved in 4 maybe 5 final tables in the usual midweek mtt and cashed in none of them well nothing noteworthy despite being chip leader by considerable amounts.

I think with someone like brian he plays with his heart and I am not so sure pointing out different aspects of hands is going to do the trick.

As far as I am aware people more qualified than me have tried that on many occasions before and failed.
I am the same a gut feeling player.

Problem is with gut feeling players is they don't see things rationally when its not going there way, which is why we overbet pots, or overplay aces etc etc.

I think we are similar players brian, and if I could offer you a piece of advice its too slow down don't be in a rush to win pots or dyms or mtts, and try as much as you can to change things up a bit, do the opposite to your normal, if it doesn't work no harm done.

And for anyone wondering whys this bloke giving advice on mtts and dyms etc,cause he aint got a great record, well that maybe true, but that don't mean I don't care about a fellow plo 08 player!

Kags

churchy18 · November 2015

Been away for the weekend and just want a couple of games and have too sort out the league as well will reply properly later or in morning. thanks brian.

churchy18 · December 2015

had a few reads of all the posts so thank you for all the replies.

Hand1 i was not too sure whether too go with it or not as looking back at it im going too be heads up v a player who has chips 2 throw about and it could give me a good stack but this is probably why im asking for help but looking at it again it is a fold and a call at most as i should have waited for a better hand too shove with.

hand2 thanks hendrick maybe that is the doubt creeping in on my own hands and how when too play them as looking back at this 1 maybe i was worrying more about player2 in the back of my mind as think it was getting closer too money but agree it should be a raise especially with notes

hand3
think in this hand i have waited 2 see how strong action is before me after the flop then decided that i was ahead with notes on opponent but even then think i should maybe even fld too the raise post flop? so agree with what both geldy and hendrik say should have raised pre and seen how the cards came but in that case i would have been more likely to check fold a decent raise post flop rather than reraise.

hand4
This 1 think its ok too limp in but thinking about it maybe i should have raised pre and then seen how it played out as a few have said.
and on the river pretty much i have been blinded by my own hand esppecially after the a on the turn think this was a pretty basic mistake by me. i should have folded too the reraise as i should have known i had been behind.

get a reply too other 2 hands tommorow thanks for all the replies will post a few more hands tomorrow.

Cheers and all the best brian

Some pl08 hints tips wanted

Hand History #971326377 (23:46 24/11/2015)

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