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Sattelite Play

DoyleBrunDoyleBrun Member Posts: 1,296
edited April 2016 in The Poker Clinic
In the £18 Vegas Satt' 7 left 5 places paid villain in sb raises to 1000 I go AI in bb I had 14300 he had 7800 blinds 250/500. 26 in it at start they started with 3000 stacks I had QQ. I know your supposed to protect your stack but would it be right to fold or just call with this hand. My thoughts were I have a premium hand and if I win I will almost be certain to get a seat he could also fold.
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  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    edited April 2016
    In Response to Sattelite Play:
    In the £18 Vegas Satt' 7 left 5 places paid villain in sb raises to 1000 I go AI in bb I had 14300 he had 7800 blinds 250/500. 26 in it at start they started with 3000 stacks I had QQ. I know your supposed to protect your stack but would it be right to fold or just call with this hand. My thoughts were I have a premium hand and if I win I will almost be certain to get a seat he could also fold.
    Posted by DoyleBrun
    Be good to know the other stacks as this can amend our play. Also has oppo been jamming or min raising as standard?
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited April 2016
    Also important to know how often he has been raising. Against a range of AJ+, TT+ and KQs we are only a 58.4% favourite which might not be good enough to be gambling here. 

    Average stack will be 11.1k so you have above average and are probably around 3rd/4th in chips? He's probably below average and either 6th or last in chips.
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  • DoyleBrunDoyleBrun Member Posts: 1,296
    edited April 2016
    I was 4th or 5th the big stack had about 20000 he was not mad but had been min raising in sb regularly earlier he had folded to a shove and a RR when more players were in, I just find it hard that you should fold such a premium hand if I fold this I am pretty much folding everything.
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  • bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited April 2016
    How many chips did the short stacks have? Cant answer the question unless we know this it really is key info.
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  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 842
    edited April 2016
    In a satellite we should be looking to call off a very tight range. 
    However when a player min raises, it allows us to take the initiative and be the one to utilise fold equity. We should be reshoving a much wider range than the one we call off with. When we have fold equity ICM considerations aren't as significant a factor as when we have to call off x amount of chips as a good amount of the time we'll just pick up what's in the middle

    If he open shoved the decision would be closer. I still imagine it would be a call, but like others have said stacks on other tables are important. If there are a few players left with a couple of blinds we could probably just fold out way to a seat.
    If i was in a satellite and a player raised my blind, and I knew they were only going to (correctly) call off a very strong range, I would probably be looking to reshove any ace, and pair here. There's going to be such a huge difference in there min raise steal range and their min raise call range that it can be very +ev to reshove a lot of hands. The stacks of other people are so important when making any decisions in satellites.

    Interestingly if a player doesnt understand satellite dynamics and adjust it is massively -ev for both him and the player who approaches them correctly, which is why I'd be more careful putting pressure on unknowns/ losing players than I would winning players.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited April 2016
    In Response to Re: Sattelite Play:
    In a satellite we should be looking to call off a very tight range.  However when a player min raises, it allows us to take the initiative and be the one to utilise fold equity. We should be reshoving a much wider range than the one we call off with. When we have fold equity ICM considerations aren't as significant a factor as when we have to call off x amount of chips as a good amount of the time we'll just pick up what's in the middle If he open shoved the decision would be closer.
    Posted by FeelGroggy
    Generally you are correct but different considerations apply when a short stack is opening. A short stack should not be min-opening with many hands that are raise/folding and generally at 14bb or less they will just be open jamming or folding to maximise fold equity.

    A short stack has less to fear by being 3b all in because they can afford to take the risk and call it off. They have the least to lose by being the shortest stack. A good player's m-r range from a SS (particularly when in SB) will be lots of strong suited Ax hands (AT-AK), other suited high card connectors and JJ-AA. So we really don't have much fold equity by re-shoving and as such have to have a pretty strong hand to do so. 

    QQ I'm pretty sure is strong enough (just about)
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