New Player Advice needed

Arctic666

I started playing here about a month and a half back and have enjoyed learning to play Hold Em, mainly in tournaments and a few DYM six seaters too, Ive only tried cash games a couple of times and simply dont enjoy it, so its something I intend to leave alone.

My question is will I loose out learning circle wise by not playing cash games?, and by stick to tournament play instead? Im sort of assuming theres elements of play Im not going to learn maybe?, that will maybe cost me dearly in the longer run in tournament play, if that makes any sense

Another question, which are currently the best books to read with regards to tournament play? something that suits the modern online game and maybe help deepen my understanding of the game overall,

Really enjoyed my time at the tables win or loose, very nice site and players, think this will be a good place for me to develop my game

thanks in advance for any advce answers

HENDRIK62

Cash and tourneys are quite a different breed, lots of very successful tournament players are relatively poor at cash and vice versa.

If you don't like cash you could play some slower moving deepstack tournaments which play more like cash games in the earlier stages

The two most notable major differences are the ability to reload in a cash game and the increasing BB in tourneys, both of which have an effect on the dynamics.

Good luck

Arctic666

In Response to Re: New Player Advice needed:

Cash and tourneys are quite a different breed, lots of very successful tournament players are relatively poor at cash and vice versa. If you don't like cash you could play some slower moving deepstack tournaments which play more like cash games in the earlier stages The two most notable major differences are the ability to reload in a cash game and the increasing BB in tourneys, both of which have an effect on the dynamics. Good luck
Posted by HENDRIK62

Cheers for the advice, I've started out quite well with the tournaments and had a couple of wins, a few final tables cashes, played a lot of Bounty Hunters, Deep Stacks, DTD's on a monday too, built myself a nice little micro bankroll considering my deposits, I never looked at it as profit just mearly money too learn with as it appears the only way to progress is pay as you learn lol

my good run however has come to a shuddering end lol last win was last weekend, since then its been a steep decline into reality again lol

I have looked at a few texts online fronm the bigger name books, and to be fair Ive sort of understood bits Ive picked up and they make sense inline with what Ive learned works so far, but they have also somewhat confused my play lol

hence asking for whats consdered the best modern book to read to furhter my game, Id prefer to buy one book and go woth that, but realise via reasearch that the games shifted since some fo the better known texts have been published

well for now for me its back too basics, and lower stakes freerolls, also want to learn to play Omaha at some point,

Arctic666

As part of my loosing streak I also tried low level cash, it wasnt a pleasent expirience, well its was for a while lol

one thing though it did teach me is that its not my thing, Im going to stick to tourney play

Tikay10

Hi Arctic,

I can count on the fingers of one hand players who excel at Tournaments AND Cash games - it's very rare indeed to be good enough to win at both.

And no, you are not missing any learning experience by focussing on one or the other, as not all the skills transfer well.
 
You seem to be doing ok at MTT's, so if I were you, I'd stick to them.
 
Books I'd recommend? None. The logic of learning poker from books is lost on me. Imagine a really good book such as Super System, which is arguably the best ever. Now imagine EVERY poker player on earth reads it, & absorbs the lessons. The result would be we'd all play the same game & have no edge.
 
Watch others, experiment, keep your discipline, & don't be afraid to do the odd quirky thing. 

Good luck, hope you'll soon be an Arctic on a roll.   

Tikay10

In Response to Re: New Player Advice needed:

In Response to Re: New Player Advice needed : Cheers for the advice, I've started out quite well with the tournaments and had a couple of wins, a few final tables cashes, played a lot of Bounty Hunters, Deep Stacks, DTD's on a monday too, built myself a nice little micro bankroll considering my deposits, I never looked at it as profit just mearly money too learn with as it appears the only way to progress is pay as you learn lol my good run however has come to a shuddering end lol last win was last weekend, since then its been a steep decline into reality again lol I have looked at a few texts online fronm the bigger name books, and to be fair Ive sort of understood bits Ive picked up and they make sense inline with what Ive learned works so far, but they have also somewhat confused my play lol hence asking for whats consdered the best modern book to read to furhter my game, Id prefer to buy one book and go woth that, but realise via reasearch that the games shifted since some fo the better known texts have been published well for now for me its back too basics, and lower stakes freerolls, also want to learn to play Omaha at some point,
Posted by Arctic666

Just my personal view, but PLO & PLO8 are the finest variants of poker bar none.

And if you get the fundamentals right, it's easier to be a winner in the 4 card game than the 2 card game. And, unlike NLH, it's a post flop game, where we play down the streets, not a pre-flop game. More thinking, more fun.   

Arctic666

thanks for the advice its appreciated< I think I will leave off the books for now and simply  just go with the flow, and hopefully begin a decent arctic roll lol

after a little soul searching and also reviewing a good few hands Ive realised my demise has been mostly of my own making, so its time to dig deeper and sit a little longer, fingers crossed I can find some form

On the plus side despite going broke last night, I m still up over all, taking into account some funds I withdrew lol well they going back on but not all at once, little acorns again for me, think it will be Deep Stacks, and £2.30 bounty hunters

Soon as Ive got a grip back on my hold em play I intnd to chance my arm at learning Omaha, just started reading up on it online, thanks again for your comments and advice, stay lucky

hhyftrftdr

The best way to learn and improve is to simply play. The more experience the better. This usually comes at a cost, but it's just like learning to play the guitar; you'd have to pay to get better at that for X number of lessons until you're ready to go alone and its essentially the same for poker.

You sound like you have your head screwed enough on to realise this so thats half the battle won. Just keep playing within your limits, keep enjoying yourself, and utilise all the free info out there on the web.

Advice for MTTs?

Be aware of stack sizes, blind levels etc

Be ready and able to adjust to any given table dynamic

Try to avoid being results orientated

Don't be afraid to take on good situations, if it goes pear shaped then there is always another tournament.

Good luck.

CATCH-22

1st time but +1

Bustertown

In Response to Re: New Player Advice needed:

after a little soul searching and also reviewing a good few hands Ive realised my demise has been mostly of my own making, so its time to dig deeper and sit a little longer, fingers crossed I can find some form
Posted by Arctic666

I think knowing this fact, rather than blaming something else, is a good lesson learnt - i.e. a lot of people blame anything other than themselves, be that other players, the dealer or even the formation of stars and the clouds! That said, not every lost pot is a hand you have played badly as sometimes brave (or reckless) players get rewarded with luck.

The best advice I would add, is only stake what you can afford to lose and get the best value from it by playing low stake, longer games in order to get the most practice.

Arctic666

thanks for all the advice and comments, started again tonite, best  result was in the 1k Bounty Hunter finished 15/258 and got a seven heads, so thats me happy, made a couple of silly plays mid game that cost me same in first part of the game , but I think Ive seen another couple of gaps in my game too address, onwards and upwards again for now

thanks again for taking the time too comment

TeddyBloat

be aware that the rake on skys low-stakes cash tables is well above industry standard and will be hard to beat for a new / and or improving player.

you can be better than the players aroud you and still lose a fair rate to the rake. dont read too much into your bankroll results at those stakes, the rake will mask your improvements - you can be beating your opponents pre-rake for quite a clip before you profit after rake.

you will face similar issues across the low stakes games offered.

B/H are lower variance however and will be softer than other MTTs on sky, so a really good place to learn MTT's and build a roll.

Arctic666

Again thanks for the the advice and comments, had what I consider my personal best result todate tonite, in the £200 deep stack, came in fifth, and cashed for £20, had a couple of firsts/seconds  in other tourney formats, and higher cash gains, but for me this was my best game yet, my gaps still there and again I sort of knowhere I went wrong a couple of times, but I let myslef discipline slip and it cost me, but maintaining a healthy stack throughout allowed me too creep into the last six, bubble was a long process, been there a few times and past expireience payed off, and helped me limpp thorough, got busted on a flush on my last push, but fair play n good game , really enjoyed it, been a good weekend Im up on my deposit, and heaidng forward, thanks again all

Tikay10

He's on a roll.

Well done Arctic.

MAXALLY

Very swiss Tikay. Sorry, I mean swish

Congrats Artic. Someone once famously said 'poker is a never ending game'. If playing for fun though, make sure you keep enjoying it.

Arctic666

cheers fellas, came sixth in deep stack tonite, well pleased with that and had a couple of good runs in tourneys today as well, got busted twice on same hand lol but live n learn and artics still on a roll, lol

markycash

Hi Arctic

Good to see you seem to be enjoying the game and I agree with Tikay's comments regarding OH8.

Regarding best books etc...

There are obviously many ways to learn such as; reading books, watching training videos, experimenting and observing other players. I think it is a big mistake to entirely dismiss or advocate one of these as the best or worst way to learn. We are all individuals and individuals all have varying learning styles. I personally get bored reading so learn more effectively watching video content but there are many people who learn more effectively from reading. It depends on you and what engages you the most. Give all avenues a try and see what works best for you personally.

Regarding the books, I know they are all out there in the public domain so the argument can be made that everyone could read them and thus everything is public knowledge and everyone will know what you are up to. I would disagree with this, mainly as not everyone will go to the bother of reading them. I have played for a number of years and although books do not particularly engage me I feel I should have made a bit more effort than I have to read more. If you find credible books then there will be masses of players who have not read what you are reading (granted a few may have). Even if others have read them, we all take different stuff out of the same text (just look at the different ways people interpret the bible/koran for evidence of that.

I personally would suggest...

• Give all avenues of learning a try.
• Keep enjoying the game (it is much easier to learn if we are enjoying the experience).
• Don't get too hung up on short term wins or loses (NLHE MTT's are more about the long run).
• Review your exit hands and your play in general and make sure there was solid logic behind it (win or lose).
• Make sure you are using effective bankroll management.

Best of luck to you and maybe see you on the tables soon!

Arctic666

Thought I wouid post an update on this thread, as Ive really appreciatted the advice I was given when I posted it originaly, so thanks again everyone whom took the time too give advice.

Did Arctic continue too roll lol?

Like most things with little substance (ice cream being one) I simply got melted after a decent run, just as I began to see wood for trees somebody set a fire behind me I failed too see it and got burnt to death, vowed never to deposit again, well until I could apply some logic and common snece to my overall game and approach too it, luckily for me Im fairly poor and stayed well within my limits so its was never a real problem, apart from severly dented pride

After a week the questions crept back in as did the desire to play again lmao, however I choose a very basic book and signed up too the massive site, wont mention name, been there before and left as it simply fried my head the sheer size of the games and way its played, lost deposits in mins before in past and stayed away lol anyhow only went there cos a lot play free money games whcih I know aint bets way to learn but I stayed with this whilst reading the book and browsing forums here and otheer places on net, also found loads of free books online

slowly but surely ive expanded my knowledge a little and found what texts suit me, read about varience lol poker math just generally opened up a little more than I had previously, thankfully this kept me off the tables ,

eventually I started to play micro tourneys on said larger site and appllied some basic ABC play and improoved slightly I used my finishing places to mark my progress, eventuually after playing a lot of hands the first 2.96 dollar cash came, to date Ive not cashed for more than 9.23 dollars lol but what Ive won has meant the world too me, ive learned too apply methods ive understood and gained understanding of ones I couldnt haggle just reading, during play if that makes sense, still make glaring errors and tilt like mad, but understand why now and slowly gaining control in games, can take a bad beat and come back into game by gearign down a little and settling myself

likesay no major wins, still making silly errors, bad reads, poor choices but Im sure I can see wood for trees, even after massive down swings hit me and best of all still motivated to learn, imprrove and most important enjoyig the game more than ever, can see myslef in the micros likely forever but if thats where my level is so be it, its incentive enough to beat just that eventually lol

Anyhow lately Ive come back too sky as Ive always enjoed the poker here and set up suits me , sure its a smaller field but I think overall its sort fo my home in poker, first place I deposited and played, had my first win here and its host my favourite Deepstacks tourneys ( I played same on said big site too, love the format) I intend to play as many deepstacks on the evenings as I possibly can, my aim is too monitor my game for leaks and areas I need to improve on, think the smaller more quality field will allow me too note take more effectively etc so my sole aim is too win the Deepstack eventually and hopfully make regular cashes in it. managed sixth on saturday nights even blanked the beggining of the boxing out as I was that focused on the game, ended up in last six and blew it first hand despite being second in stacks , I blame Tony Bellew myself lol

My latest reading is The Mental Game of Poker Jated Tendler, aim is address my tilt problems lol only couple of chapters in so far so good, In reality I should be reading up on basic poker math would suit my needs more but Ive always hated maths and been poor at it, somethings never change eh was same at school, but will face it one day as its an important aspect f the game

Look forward too seeing everyone at the tables , well if you play the deepstacks lol

Arctic666

quick update , managed to win the 215 Deepstack this afternoon, Im over the moon as this was my poker goal for this year lol also managed a few cashes in deepstacks last couple of weeks and some deep runs too, so all is good in the hood, onwards and hopefully upwards

Tikay10

oioi,well done.
 
Arctic on a heater.

fi33er

Hi Artic,

You are doing very well and its nice to see you are getting good results.

There are some great players on this site and lots of them will be free with their advice and wisdom.  That is what I like about this site the most.

Good luck with your poker.  The Viva Las Vegas qualifiers are great value.  check them out under the satelite tab under tournements. 

Keep us posted of your successes (that looks like I spelt it wrong!) 

Good luck