Would you guys say squeeze play can be more effective (or make more over a period of time), during DYM's? That seems to be my experience of it compared to cash and mtt's, especially when playing against guys on sky where I know the players a lot better than I would on some of the bigger sites. But sometimes you know, you notice a pattern and then each time you see it, it reinforces the pattern in your mind, even if it is not true Posted by MrWh1te
Because DYMS are effectively the same as the bubble of an MTT. So you can use the squeeze to leverage your opponents stack and put them in an ugly spot for their dym/mtt life.
Not that I am a proper player or anything like that, but we had an interesting example in our PLO8 DYM the other night. If I remember correctly, button was limping almost every pot, I am in the SB unsuited A K 10 4 , I "bumped it up" in a sort of semi bluff squeezeish play only to find you re-raise in the BB . Button folds and after I dwelt a little I folded, and you showed the inevitable AA22 cannot remember but I guess you were at least suited on one side and probably two. You asked if my bet was inspired by the limping of said player and I said yes, adding that in the past I would probably have gambled. You did not say anything further and I was wondering whether I was correct in folding or not ? I think I still had around about 1000 chips left and I am pretty sure I lost a few hands later as the blinds were getting bigger. Not sure if this is a good example, or even worth posting but thought I would. Yours and anyone else's thoughts would be appreciated Nick Posted by pompeynic
Hi Nick,
I never responded further as I had too many tables on the go, & besides, I did not want to upset the serial limper or draw too much attention to his play.
Strangely, given how many hands I play every day/week, I recall the hand vividly. When you popped it up, I insta thought "Nick is squeezing the station", lol, but as it happened I had a monster, so my play was a no-brainer. I had assumed you were much much weaker, to be honest. Not sure I could have folded in your spot, but then again, as played, I HAVE to be huge in that spot.
I remember playing in a TV sit n go type thing at least ten years ago. It was one of the first times I'd played with Surinder Sunar and I was very intimidated by him. There was a hand where I think Devilfish raised and I flatted with a pair of eights. Surinder then put in a bi raise with KJ which was considered by Jesse May in the commentary box to be an absolutely incredible move. He talked and talked about how this was world class and had never really been seen on TV. If you ever look back on Late Night Poker which was a few years before this I think he could easily be right. He commented that professionals like Surinder had been getting away with stuff like this for years and this was what marked them out from the crowd and the Fish said I'd call you so fast but I have to worry about him pointing to me, which basically explained the beauty of the play to anyone who hadn't grasped.
It's funny now to think that a 3-bet with KJ was considered super-aggro.
Barny Boatman loves the call with a big hand hoping someone behind squeezes...he calls it the Sqeezy Pleasy.
How can anyone not love Cool for Cats? I went to see Chris Difford the other day...he didn't quite fill a church but he played an acoustic guitar and told stories and he was great.
when squeeze plays go wrong... Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Hardtime Small blind 15.00 15.00 2515.00 RLT16 Big blind 30.00 45.00 1880.00 Your hole cards A Q LoveChops Call 30.00 75.00 2230.00 x Call 30.00 105.00 2140.00 REDARROW61 Fold dalek_x Call 30.00 135.00 1400.00 Hardtime Call 15.00 150.00 2500.00 RLT16 Raise 180.00 330.00 1700.00 LoveChops Fold x Call 180.00 510.00 1960.00 dalek_x Fold Hardtime Call 180.00 690.00 2320.00 Flop A 4 4 Hardtime Check RLT16 Bet 517.50 1207.50 1182.50 x Call 517.50 1725.00 1442.50 Hardtime Fold Turn K RLT16 All-in 1182.50 2907.50 0.00 x Call 1182.50 4090.00 260.00 RLT16 Show A Q x Show 4 4 River 7 x Win Four 4s 4090.00 4350.00 Posted by RLT16
Question:
Is a squeeze play inherently a bluff?
i.e. if, as in the above example from RLT16, you have a premium hand pre-flop, almost certainly the best hand, is 5x-6x' ing it still considered a squeeze play? Or is it simply getting value from your hand and making sure not too many players go to the flop.
You're not necessarily trying to take everyone off the hand in that instance, you'd ideally want a caller or re-raiser if you've got AA, KK etc.
I've always had an association in my mind that when someone 'squeezes' as opposed to simply putting in a big raise, it's because by definition they don't have a hand and are running a bluff in such a way that no-one can call unless they're slow-playing the goods.
when squeeze plays go wrong... Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Hardtime Small blind 15.00 15.00 2515.00 RLT16 Big blind 30.00 45.00 1880.00 Your hole cards A Q LoveChops Call 30.00 75.00 2230.00 x Call 30.00 105.00 2140.00 REDARROW61 Fold dalek_x Call 30.00 135.00 1400.00 Hardtime Call 15.00 150.00 2500.00 RLT16 Raise 180.00 330.00 1700.00 LoveChops Fold x Call 180.00 510.00 1960.00 dalek_x Fold Hardtime Call 180.00 690.00 2320.00 Flop A 4 4 Hardtime Check RLT16 Bet 517.50 1207.50 1182.50 x Call 517.50 1725.00 1442.50 Hardtime Fold Turn K RLT16 All-in 1182.50 2907.50 0.00 x Call 1182.50 4090.00 260.00 RLT16 Show A Q x Show 4 4 River 7 x Win Four 4s 4090.00 4350.00 Posted by RLT16
This is not a squeeze play. You've simply raised, with a premium hand, into 3 limpers.
In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : Question: Is a squeeze play inherently a bluff? i.e. if, as in the above example from RLT16, you have a premium hand pre-flop, almost certainly the best hand, is 5x-6x' ing it still considered a squeeze play? Or is it simply getting value from your hand and making sure not too many players go to the flop. You're not necessarily trying to take everyone off the hand in that instance, you'd ideally want a caller or re-raiser if you've got AA, KK etc. I've always had an association in my mind that when someone 'squeezes' as opposed to simply putting in a big raise, it's because by definition they don't have a hand and are running a bluff in such a way that no-one can call unless they're slow-playing the goods. ? Posted by RICHORFORD
Yes,always a bluff IMO. 3 betting with AA into a raise and a call is a standard play that even a new player can see is the correct way to play AA. Try getting a new player to do the same with 7 2 off. You're simply trying to win the money already in the pot and not see a flop.
In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : Question: Is a squeeze play inherently a bluff? i.e. if, as in the above example from RLT16, you have a premium hand pre-flop, almost certainly the best hand, is 5x-6x' ing it still considered a squeeze play? Or is it simply getting value from your hand and making sure not too many players go to the flop. You're not necessarily trying to take everyone off the hand in that instance, you'd ideally want a caller or re-raiser if you've got AA, KK etc. I've always had an association in my mind that when someone 'squeezes' as opposed to simply putting in a big raise, it's because by definition they don't have a hand and are running a bluff in such a way that no-one can call unless they're slow-playing the goods. ? Posted by RICHORFORD
This was discussed by a few of us the other day. We decided that the squeeze is a description of the action and our holding is not relevant so we may or may not have a hand
In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : This was discussed by a few of us the other day. We decided that the squeeze is a description of the action and our holding is not relevant so we may or may not have a hand Posted by MattBates
Would make complete sense to balance this action, otherwise when it is recognised as such it becomes exploitable.
In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : This was discussed by a few of us the other day. We decided that the squeeze is a description of the action and our holding is not relevant so we may or may not have a hand Posted by MattBates
For me it isn't a squeeze if you have an extremely strong hand such as AA KK, it would be as someone mentioned simply an attempt to maximise the value out of your hand. Unless you wanted them all to fold which would be stupid but I guess could be labelled a squeeze. With a squeeze the goal is to get players to fold, you obviously don't want players to fold if you have a premium, you want value.
I don't agree however that it needs to be a bluff and that you cannot think you have the best hand. For example if you have 55 and a loose player opens and someone throws in a call and action comes to you. You may think your pocket 5's are the best hand. You may ordinarily have standard opened this holding or sought to set mine and were not particularly looking to get stacks in. You may then deviate from your standard approach to the hand and attempt a 'squeeze' here. I mean while you might be representing much more than a lowly pocket pair of fives in this example, you do actually think you have the best hand.
Obviously it can be a complete bluff too. In the above example you might feel one of the players has 66-99 in their range and squeeze with the 5's if you feel you have fold equity.
2 players limp (probably loose passive) we raise there limps with K8os 1 of the limpers fold flop comes XXX they check we can cbet half pot and take it down profitably as they will be playing fit fold. as they play fit fold it doesnt take a big cbet to get them to fold even 1/3rd pot (if we bet half pot it has to work about 33% of the time to be a instant profitable play / if we know opponent is playing fit fold and is a weak player he will miss the board about 70% of the time so we cbet even if we miss vs this opponent as it is profitable)
Now you probably ask why K8os............. We want to select hands what have blockers to good equity hands Such as Ak KQ Kj K10.
What we need to realize if this is going to be successful is the people in the blind......... We need nits that overfold there blinds and dont defend wide enough (another exploit but thats another story).
We already have our target = limpers = weak so exploit them as much as possible. as they like to see flops with very marginal hands......... if they hit a piece they arnt folding.
so if we hit the board we will get paid by value betting big on 2 if not 3 streets. If we face aggression vs these passive players we fold.
Doing the above if you aint already will increase your bb/100 winrate. = cash games
doing it in MTTs without antes is somewhat pointless as shallower stacks + no insentive to play weak holdings as the antes are not chipping away at your stack every hand.
Comments
utg 225 = 4.5BB
4 callers!
sb puts in a pot size bet of 1225
bb makes it 2975
this is a squeeze squeeze play!
if sb has AKs, what does he do now?
I never responded further as I had too many tables on the go, & besides, I did not want to upset the serial limper or draw too much attention to his play.
Strangely, given how many hands I play every day/week, I recall the hand vividly. When you popped it up, I insta thought "Nick is squeezing the station", lol, but as it happened I had a monster, so my play was a no-brainer. I had assumed you were much much weaker, to be honest. Not sure I could have folded in your spot, but then again, as played, I HAVE to be huge in that spot.
I remember playing in a TV sit n go type thing at least ten years ago. It was one of the first times I'd played with Surinder Sunar and I was very intimidated by him. There was a hand where I think Devilfish raised and I flatted with a pair of eights. Surinder then put in a bi raise with KJ which was considered by Jesse May in the commentary box to be an absolutely incredible move. He talked and talked about how this was world class and had never really been seen on TV. If you ever look back on Late Night Poker which was a few years before this I think he could easily be right. He commented that professionals like Surinder had been getting away with stuff like this for years and this was what marked them out from the crowd and the Fish said I'd call you so fast but I have to worry about him pointing to me, which basically explained the beauty of the play to anyone who hadn't grasped.
It's funny now to think that a 3-bet with KJ was considered super-aggro.
Barny Boatman loves the call with a big hand hoping someone behind squeezes...he calls it the Sqeezy Pleasy.
How can anyone not love Cool for Cats? I went to see Chris Difford the other day...he didn't quite fill a church but he played an acoustic guitar and told stories and he was great.
^^^
Ha, agree with "Cool for Cats" & Squeeze (the band) generally, I love them to this day.
In the early days of Squeeze it was a nursery for the greatest of British musical talent. Jools Holland, of course, & even his baby bro, Chris.
Also Paul Carrack, once of Roxy Music, & later, Mike & The Mechanics.
These days Glenn Tilbrook fronts things up, & he's such a natural talent.
squeeze are superb. i have seen difford and tilbrook many times too. they actually have an album called "squeeze play"
my favourite track is this, which talks about glenn tilbrook losing his girlfiend to cancer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNF5w4pP_Eo
I don't agree however that it needs to be a bluff and that you cannot think you have the best hand. For example if you have 55 and a loose player opens and someone throws in a call and action comes to you. You may think your pocket 5's are the best hand. You may ordinarily have standard opened this holding or sought to set mine and were not particularly looking to get stacks in. You may then deviate from your standard approach to the hand and attempt a 'squeeze' here. I mean while you might be representing much more than a lowly pocket pair of fives in this example, you do actually think you have the best hand.
Obviously it can be a complete bluff too. In the above example you might feel one of the players has 66-99 in their range and squeeze with the 5's if you feel you have fold equity.
2 players limp (probably loose passive)
we raise there limps with K8os
1 of the limpers fold
flop comes XXX they check we can cbet half pot and take it down profitably as they will be playing fit fold.
as they play fit fold it doesnt take a big cbet to get them to fold even 1/3rd pot
(if we bet half pot it has to work about 33% of the time to be a instant profitable play / if we know opponent is playing fit fold and is a weak player he will miss the board about 70% of the time so we cbet even if we miss vs this opponent as it is profitable)
Now you probably ask why K8os.............
We want to select hands what have blockers to good equity hands
Such as Ak KQ Kj K10.
What we need to realize if this is going to be successful is the people in the blind.........
We need nits that overfold there blinds and dont defend wide enough (another exploit but thats another story).
We already have our target = limpers = weak so exploit them as much as possible.
as they like to see flops with very marginal hands.........
if they hit a piece they arnt folding.
so if we hit the board we will get paid by value betting big on 2 if not 3 streets.
If we face aggression vs these passive players we fold.
Doing the above if you aint already will increase your bb/100 winrate. = cash games
doing it in MTTs without antes is somewhat pointless as shallower stacks + no insentive to play weak holdings as the antes are not chipping away at your stack every hand.
Hope this explains everything above
Natalie