Raise/call v openshove

grantorino

4 left £20BH

Villain is good aggro player, has 3bet my opens a few times

I've been opening abit, not a massive amount in general as for a lot of time villain had big stack and guy behind him flatted a lot, I've been a mid stack with lots of small stacks just looking to ladder for a lot of last hour, which has made things trickyfor me. I've openshoved a good few times in last few orbits, inc at least last 2 from SB v villains BB.

CO has~75K, likes to call small opens wide

BTN ~12.5K has been blinding down to about 3BB contninually,keeps staying alive though

Payouts ~ 1st 220, 2nd 144, 3rd 89, 4th 72

So anyone like this line, or do we openshove (I assume raise/foldnot really an option)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
grantorino	Small blind		1000.00	1000.00	32462.50
Villain	Big blind		2000.00	3000.00	27237.50
	Your hole cards	2 A
CO	Fold
BTN	Fold
grantorino	Raise		3000.00	6000.00	29462.50
Villain	All-in		27237.50	33237.50	0.00
grantorino	Call		25237.50	58475.00	4225.00

bearlyther

Raise calling has got to be the worst option. Raise calling for 13 bb here wont even be making money in chip ev vs his jamming range never mind how bad it is for icm when there is a 3 bb stack at the table its really bad for you to bust before someone with that stack size. 

Id open ship for 13 bb knowing its a +ev jam maximising fold equity and he has to call a tight range given that theres a 3 bb stack at the table and not allowing for him to reship on me wide. Confused as to why we want to induce with a2? 

Against some players you can exploitably min raise against people who is never reshipping on you wide to lower your varience as opposed to open jamming but you would be doing so with the intention of raise folding this type of hand. Raise calling here is really bad its not even close.

grantorino

Dont really disagree with much you say bearlyther, just a couple of points

Smallest stack is over 6BB, I've only twice that. Also jump from 4th to 3rd pretty small compared to jumps after that.

Pretty sure jamming +EV, I dont like minraise folding v this guy, obv fine v some v some villains, but think  its shove or raise call in this situation

Villain is capable of shoving light imo. Generally I would prob openshove, decided to play it this way. How do think his range for calling an openshove and jamming over a river differ given the dynamic?

bearlyther

If villan is capable of jamming light then that makes are raise call bad as a2 doesnt do great against the hands he jams they all have great quity and even if hes jamming light were still an underdog against his jamming range. What do you mean jamming over a river?

FeelGroggy

Completely agree with bearly. Raise call is definitely the worst option. 

I personally think raise fold is a fine option here and is definitely my preferred play vs a tighter opponent. Otherwise open shoving is fine.

We should not be inducing here. Any hand he reshoves with is flipping or crushing us. 

I imagine min raise folding induces him to jam flips that might fold to an open shove if he reshoves wide. But he still reshoves his value that crushes us. If we min raise here it should be to raise fold imo.

Also if villain as a 'good aggro player' he might pass better weak aces and some low PP type hands v an open shove

TeddyBloat

+1to the above.

Also by minr you allow your opponent  an extra strategic option, flatting.

If villain is a good thinking player it's not good to offer that option to him