DYM Spot - QQ on the bubble

Lambert180

HH won't seem to copy properly so I'll just give the details.

Blinds are 200/400 and it's the bubble

Stacks prior to posting any blinds are...

CO  = 3400

BTN = 3000           (me)

SB   = 1200

BB   = 4400

----------------------------------------

CO opens to 800, we have QQ on the BTN, WWYD?

HENDRIK62

Didnt read properly 1st time round, really good question.

I think I flat and call off if shorty shoves. If shorty folds I will reavaluate on flop.

If OR is not a DYM reg then I may play it differently, but I will be interested to hear others thoughts, these spots give me problems

jdsallstar

any reads on CO?

I dont know what I'd do here and prob changes regularly depending on my confidence level lol

If it's someone who has been opening a lot I prob just go ahead and shove. I might call a bunch of times and shove low flops and fold on Ace/king high boards. I think the majority of the time i just shove because it's the most straight forward decision.

Occassionally I might even fold them if the rest of the table are crazy and i think the CO is likely to get a call or they'll all go to war soon enough.

ps good question again- loving the sng strategy board revival.

Jac35

I think I shove 

I know that utg should be strong here given the small blinds stack but...

Your play also looks super strong and should get a lot of folds.

I've passed in these spots before and with the blinds as high as this it's amazing how quickly you're the one having to shove light

We then end up kicking ourselves very hard that we didn't go with the queens.

RLT16

I fold  

RLT16

In all seriousness it all depends on the reads on SB and CO but my default would be to jam. It's hard to CO to call you with the SB being so low

RLT16

Although MR again to 1200 isn't bad either, then if the SB comes along it allows the CO to call aswell.

MP33

Depends how he,s been playing _ think i,m shoving here tho- also depends how i,ve been playing - if i,ve been shoving a lot already then maybe i,d fold some hands that i wouldn,t normally fold

Played a strange one last night (£10 turbo DYM) ended up folding a lot of hands i,d normally play but it was on the bubble and the two chip leaders were playing almost every pot togethor with junk. it was like they had a grudge against each other so myself and another player pretty much sat out and let them get on with it until one knocked the other out

jdsallstar

Depends on the sb but any half decent player is folding 95% of their range seeing a cut off open and a min 3bet. He's not going to want to go 3 way and he still has fold equity with 1200 chips if he folds this hand and shoves any of his next two hands.

The CO facing the min raise will either flat or shove. If he flats we're giving him a chance to catch up if he's behind and if he's sitting with AA KK AK he puts us in anyway and we probably have to call considering we've put in nearly half our stack.

To me it really depends on our perception of the CO, the more active he's been the easier the shove and tighter he is the more I'd be inclined to peel. However I'd say i'm shoving 90% of opponents. 

The problem with peeling is if he's ahead pre then a good percentage of flops we wont be able to get away from anyway and if he's behind with a smaller pair or somethin like Ak-10 or kq/kj we've gave him the opportunity to catch where a lot of those hands would fold pre to a shove given how tight our range must be in this situation.

Enut

With no read I think I would jam. If you run into AA KK then so be it but he has to fold every other hand IMO.

As Jac says if you keep folding at this blind level it's not long before you're jamming with a lot less than QQ.

jdsallstar

Oh and if our min raise is with the aim of putting the sb in he's more likely to go all in with a wider range if we flat and we'll be going three way to the flop anyway as the co and ourselves will call the extra 600.

He'll also call a shove with a wider range too i think.

jdsallstar

For anyone thats good with the numbers, if we assume co has an opening range of lets say 55+ pairs, A10-k, A8-A9s and KJ-Q....what are the odds the he has aces or kings?

Lambert180

Cheers for the replies. I really didn't have a clue what to do, I was really reluctant to shove cos I thought it'd be a cardinal sin to bust from my stack size when the SB has only 1000 left (now that he's posted his SB), and I should have mentioned this in the OP really but none of the players were regs and didn't seem that great when it comes to DYM strat, I'd have certainly expected the opener to snap off my jam with something like AT which I really don't want.

I was then tempted to call instead with the intention of calling the shorty if he jams but then I thought 'meh he's only gonna jam a vvvv strong hand once 2 others players are involved in a pot, so I'm likely just sticking 800 chips in the middle that I'm gonna end up losing postflop quite often if I'm taking a very cautious route cos of the shorty'... anyway in the 10 second window I got to decide I just chickened out, folded and hoped the shorty would bust asap.

As it happens, it played out exactly as Jac said, I did fold, and he managed to cling on and on, and things got pretty hairy. The blinds got to 400/800 which I think is the first time I've got that far since playing them this week, and I started regretting not playing the QQ but luckily managed to cling on long enough to cash.

Phantom66

My default setting would be to shove here unless CO is extremely tight or the sb is extremely tight and folding away their stack. But noone should be playing tight at this stage of a DYM and noone is locked for the win.

I am not sure why you do not shove for fear of being called by a hand that your are 70/30 against? Given you will get the CO to fold alot and you have to happy with a sb call.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: DYM Spot - QQ on the bubble:

My default setting would be to shove here unless CO is extremely tight or the sb is extremely tight and folding away their stack. But noone should be playing tight at this stage of a DYM and noone is locked for the win. I am not sure why you do not shove for fear of being called by a hand that your are 70/30 against? Given you will get the CO to fold alot and you have to happy with a sb call.
Posted by Phantom66

It's because if I jam then shorty pretty much folds 100% hoping that me and CO clash. The reason I was put off shoving is because CO was too loose rather than too tight, I don't wanna be getting called by stuff like KJo, I really don't wanna go to showdown full stop. I know we are 70/30 but that means I bust out 30% of the time when I have 8bb and shorty has <3bb, that just doesn't seem good. 

Phantom66

Ok. 

If CO is loose then there are alot of underpairs that can call too and worse hands that have to fold 

Dont rule out sb calling if they havent been playing great dym strategy.

No other stack is committed and you should get plenty of folds. 

I would only fold if CO was allin or committed to calling a shove.

Lambert180

Yeah I may well not have made the right decision here, I'm starting to think so as pretty much every DYM reg has said jam now. At the time I really didn't know what to do and thought there was good (and bad) arguments for all 3 options; calling, folding and jamming.

mumsie

This really is a great thread with beautiful replies.

When I read the OP , I started to write my reply and I couldn't make my mind up whether to Shove, Flat or fold. 

I gave up posting and read all replies. 

I'm so pleased to see some   don't really know either. 

And thems that do know cleared things up.

mumsie

In Response to Re: DYM Spot - QQ on the bubble:

For anyone thats good with the numbers, if we assume co has an opening range of lets say 55+ pairs, A10-k, A8-A9s and KJ-Q....what are the odds the he has aces or kings?
Posted by jdsallstar

Ranges for c/o	combos
55-QQ	48
A8s+,	24
KJs+,	8
ATo+,	48
KJo+	24
AA,KK	12
	164	12 are	AA,KK

MrWh1te

Jam or fold.
I hate the call or small raise, puts you in a world of trouble, and you wont know where you are in the hand