Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter

MAXALLY

After seeing a flop, was I ever getting away from this? I had already folded AJ and 10 10 in the previous few hands I had actually played due to applied pressure. My mindset was I was never folding but was there any where I could have perhaps got away from this?

Hand History #1123540134 (23:06 19/01/2017)PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance f3nix35 Small blind   600.00 600.00 14164.25 MAXALLY Big blind   1200.00 1800.00 27249.00   Your hole cards Q A                  x           Raise   2400.00 4200.00 79434.00 cdfgtyujk Fold      nicknat118 Fold      f3nix35 Fold      MAXALLY Call   1200.00 5400.00 26049.00 Flop     K 9 A       MAXALLY Check                x           Bet   2400.00 7800.00 77034.00 MAXALLY Call   2400.00 10200.00 23649.00 Turn     9       MAXALLY Check                x           Bet   4800.00 15000.00 72234.00 MAXALLY Call   4800.00 19800.00 18849.00 River     7       MAXALLY Check                x           All-in   72234.00 92034.00 0.00 MAXALLY All-in   18849.00 110883.00 0.00            x          Unmatched bet   53385.00 57498.00 53385.00 MAXALLY Show Q A               x           Show K A               x           Win Two Pairs, Aces and Kings 57498.00   110883.00

Lambert180

In Response to Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter:

After seeing a flop, was I ever getting away from this? I had already folded AJ and 10 10 in the previous few hands I had actually played due to applied pressure. My mindset was I was never folding but was there any where I could have perhaps got away from this? Hand History #1123540134 (23:06 19/01/2017) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance f3nix35 Small blind   600.00 600.00 14164.25 MAXALLY Big blind   1200.00 1800.00 27249.00   Your hole cards Q A                  x           Raise   2400.00 4200.00 79434.00 cdfgtyujk Fold         nicknat118 Fold         f3nix35 Fold         MAXALLY Call   1200.00 5400.00 26049.00 Flop     K 9 A       MAXALLY Check                    x           Bet   2400.00 7800.00 77034.00 MAXALLY Call   2400.00 10200.00 23649.00 Turn     9       MAXALLY Check                    x           Bet   4800.00 15000.00 72234.00 MAXALLY Call   4800.00 19800.00 18849.00 River     7       MAXALLY Check                    x           All-in   72234.00 92034.00 0.00 MAXALLY All-in   18849.00 110883.00 0.00            x          Unmatched bet   53385.00 57498.00 53385.00 MAXALLY Show Q A                  x           Show K A                  x           Win Two Pairs, Aces and Kings 57498.00   110883.00
Posted by MAXALLY

Tough one cos by the river you actually beat nothing except bluffs and I'd expect vv few bluffs here, possibly none. Obviously our kicker is killed by the 9 pairing so our hand might as well be A2 now. So realistically we are calling to chop at best probably. Tough one to fold but maybe it is a fold if villain is playing pretty solid

mumsie

The nit inside me  thinks AK,  I would half heartedly call the CBet then hate the barrel. I think I'm folding, but at the table, I wonder if I actually could.

jordz16

I dont think you can fold on the flop or the turn, but given its the bubble i think you should be folding the river, as there arent any bluffs in his range unless you had notes saying he was super aggro, or overvalues his hands its gotta be a fold. 

MAXALLY

Cheers for the replies Lambo & mother!  

After sleeping on it, I think I may/may not have played it wrong, but I think I would play it the same way again anyway (If I am being honest). Think I was more annoyed at being bubble boy again more than anything else TBH.

Lambert180

Yeah I didn't actually say which street I'd fold on but I'm with Jordz, deffo can't fold pre or flop, and I'd call turn too, but I think river is the fold

Phantom66

Do you think in isolation you played it optimally, or do you think you were affected by being pushed off the other 2 hands you mentioned?

I think I would need a pretty strong read on my opponent to put them on a bluff by the river.

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter:

I dont think you can fold on the flop or the turn, but given its the bubble i think you should be folding the river, as there arent any bluffs in his range unless you had notes saying he was super aggro, or overvalues his hands its gotta be a fold. 
Posted by jordz16

Cheers for the reply. If I fold river in that spot though...that only leaves me a 18K stack @ 600/1200 level. As you know, it was a long long bubble, but I dont think I could fold there and have a 'playable' stack. However, I do respect your POV (and play) and maybe a fold on the river was the correct thing to do now I think about it a bit more.

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter:

Do you think in isolation you played it optimally, or do you think you were affected by being pushed off the other 2 hands you mentioned? I think I would need a pretty strong read on my opponent to put them on a bluff by the river.
Posted by Phantom66

You are probably correct that the other folds may have affected my judgement. I wasn't playing frustrated/tilty, but felt I was getting there slowly. As mentioned, it was a long bubble and I was as high as 3rd/11 during it. I was also the only one left without any bounties, so that played a part on the other two folds. 

Jac35

I think I just call but anyone ever 3betting pre?

It's a tough spot. I think that as you've been playing fairly tight and yet have called 3 times in this hand that it's unlikely that he will fire on the river with anything that you beat.

It's not great but I think If we believe we are beat and can still have 15 bigs left then it's still playable stack

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter:

In Response to Re: Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter : Cheers for the reply. If I fold river in that spot though...that only leaves me a 18K stack @ 600/1200 level. As you know, it was a long long bubble, but I dont think I could fold there and have a 'playable' stack. However, I do respect your POV (and play) and maybe a fold on the river was the correct thing to do now I think about it a bit more.
Posted by MAXALLY

15bb is deffo loadsss, especially with antes, I wouldn't let that put you off folding if you're pretty confident you're beat. If you'd folded leaving yourself only 10bb, I wouldn't think that was bad either (and much less than that and it's probably just all in on the turn). 10bb is spin-able and it's better to have 10 than 0

Phantom66

I x3b pre sometimes sure. It means we can get away cheaply from a x4b that should have us dominated and should eliminate small pairs and possibly suited connectors that our opponent could be opening with to take advantage of their stack and a bubble situation.

Downside is of course if we are called and behind we are OOP and much more likely to get pot committed.

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter:

I x3b pre sometimes sure. It means we can get away cheaply from a x4b that should have us dominated and should eliminate small pairs and possibly suited connectors that our opponent could be opening with to take advantage of their stack and a bubble situation. Downside is of course if we are called and behind we are OOP and much more likely to get pot committed.
Posted by Phantom66

Are you now saying you would fold AQ & AK  

Cheers for the input. I have taken a lot on board in this thread.

Lambert180

Personally I wouldn't 3bet it when the opener is UTG. It's a bit awkward with our stack size cos we just have a smidge too much to 3bet jam, but an amount that's gonna leave us stranded postflop a lot either having to bluff our whole stack off with air or having to fold away a huge chunk of our stack.

I think the only time I'd 3bet it would be against some good, aggressive regs like Bates and Bearly (there are lots of others) who I would be 3bet/calling against because I'd be 3b/folding bluffs against them too so I think they'd be jamming on me wide enough for us to call, especially in a spot like this where they have the stack to bully my shorter stack on a bubble. Again I'd want them to be in later position though cos even they will have a much stronger range to open/4b from UTG.

I wouldn't fancy 3betting it with the intention of 3b/folding.

Phantom66

The 3b the reason for it and the action if 4b is definitely player dependant.

If the table has been generally players folding to any open raise for a while (you said it was a long bubble) then maybe I would 3b here, but only sometimes. 

We need to be defending our BB in these minraise on bubble situations. AQ should therefore be high on our expected range and so I think it gives our opponent room to pay us off if we hit. So I think I prefer a call, just unlucky to be dominated here.

I have been known to fold AK pre and I think AQ is definitely foldable here - both on the river and pre here if 4b shoved by the right player.

Also regarding the river fold I like to think when facing a possible bluff, what could my opponent have, and put me on that I am ahead with and will still fold? 

I can't put them on complete air (if so well played). I can only think of holdings like KQh/KJh putting me on Ax.

Maybe we are being results oriented though and seeing the AK does make it easier to "decide" that we would fold here.

the_buckle

In Response to Re: Bubble in HR Bounty Hunter:

Tough one cos by the river you actually beat nothing except bluffs and I'd expect vv few bluffs here, possibly none.
Posted by Lambert180

Agree with most of this, calling flop and turn is fine but unless he's firing 3 barrels with air you are gonna be beat most the time, it is on the bubble though so I don't think the opponent is never bluffing, depends if he has been punishing the bubble constantly which makes it a bit harder on the river.

hhyftrftdr

Other stack sizes are pretty important, on this and the other table, when we're taking the bubble dynamics into consideration.

You don't beat anything by the river apart from a complete airball, which is hard to give weight to considering you've check/called every street so your hand looks exactly like Ax.

Perhaps you missed your spot to accumulate chips with TT? Though if you were looking to specifically sneak in the money (rather than build a stack to make a run for the FT) then the river is a clear fold.