SPT - Interesting spot

Sky__James

There was a bit of discussion about this hand so I'll give the specifics. I'm interested what other people would have done in both spots.

Blinds 10k-20k I have 1.1mill in big blind and it folds around to SB with around 600k who makes it 55k ish. I decide to shove with A-10o. My thinking is we're not that far off the money and he won't want to flip for his tourny life with 2s-7s and will prob laydown A-10, A-J and anything worse. He can fold and still have a playable stack. I had been playing very aggro so just raising could tempt him to shove with these hands. A flat call seems too tight and I'm happy to take down the pot here.

He agonises for a while and folds 9-9 which I certainly think is a mistake as I am shoving all lower pairs and playing more trappy with higher pairs.

nickd49931

Seems well played to me, good spot for you to apply pressure with a hand that doesn't play too well post flop. Can't imagine i'd find a fold with 9s. 

MattBates

I would be snapping with 99. I like your play and is good abuse of the bubble. 

Sky_SamT

Shouldn't brag posts be in BBV. James please can you move this? oh wait......

Tikay10

Ha.

You were opening or 3 betting around 6 times per orbit, so even though I'm Lord Nit, of Nit Street, Nitville, I'm re-jamming here with 9-9 in a nanasecond.
 
Then again, I noticed that you did run unbelievably well all weekend, so you'd have hit, for sure.

EvilPingu

In Response to SPT - Interesting spot:

There was a bit of discussion about this hand so I'll give the specifics. I'm interested what other people would have done in both spots. Blinds 10k-20k I have 1.1mill in big blind and it folds around to SB with around 600k who makes it 55k ish. I decide to shove with A-10o. My thinking is we're not that far off the money and he won't want to flip for his tourny life with 2s-7s and will prob laydown A-10, A-J and anything worse. He can fold and still have a playable stack. I had been playing very aggro so just raising could tempt him to shove with these hands. A flat call seems too tight and I'm happy to take down the pot here. He agonises for a while and folds 9-9 which I certainly think is a mistake as I am shoving all lower pairs and playing more trappy with higher pairs.
Posted by Sky__James

Stuck my thoughts on this hand in the main thread already if it's the same hand.

I like your jam.

I hate his raise/fold, villain should either limp/3b to avoid being exploited in this way by a competent and aggressive opponent, because you can isolate him super wide then he can just ship 99 and get you to fold so much of the time when you iso light. He's getting 4/1 on a limp with a somewhat disguised hand against a weaker than ATC range if you check anyways, plus it helps control the pot OOP, so a check isn't a disaster for him, and it would help protect the botom end of his SB limp range to be able to l/3b.

Alternatively he should just raise/call. I am okay with either option. For me, it depends whether or not the villain is employing a limping strategy from the small blind or not as to which is preferable. For me personally, it'd probably be a limp/3b. I think raise/fold is horrific though.

Donttelmum

Was worth going home early on Sat night to allow for a clear head on Sunday.

jimb0d1

I like it and you earned the right to do it by having a big stack. That was defintaely an advantage on the second day when the blinds began to pick up. Well played!

craigcu12

A10o depends really, if I've done a direct entry, then I would fold as my stack was great and we're at the bubble but if I had made entry via a sat i'd do the 3bet AI providing I know he's attempting to steal blinds and not just raising for value with hands which will dominate us.

The same thing applys to 99, either I fold the SB protect my chips and get past bubble or I raise with intent to go AI knowing i've entered the MTT via a sat

percival09

I don't know. It seems to me like ATo is one of those hands that plays too well in SRPs to just rip in 50bbs because we're 'close to the bubble'. I'm no MTT player so let's make that clear straight away.

Right, first of all, I think we're making far too many loose assumptions. How do you know your opponents won't just snap AJs? Did you have any idea at all? Or are you just thinking how you would play? It's all well and good saying "we're not far off the money" & assuming he won't "want to flip for his tourney life with 77" but we have absolutely no idea here. Like I said, using what you would do & then hoping your opponent thinks the same way is clearly a poor strategy. Now I know we don't always have to have complete information to make a play. Poker is a game of incomplete information. But there has to be a cut-off point, a point where risking our entire stack for, if anything, a potential tiny EV gain becomes a blunder. Where is that cut off point? I'd say 50bb is past it. It's one of those "how big is your..." plays imo. A bit like Elon Musk trying to colonise Mars soon.

If we're willing to rip in 50bbs with ATo because we're close to the bubble, then I assume you're willing to jam most hands? ATo likely has very poor equity vs any range that calls, so I don't see why not. 

percival09

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot:

A10o depends really if I've done a direct entry, then I would fold if my stack was great and we're at the bubble but if I had made entry via a sat i'd do the 3bet AI providing I know he's attempting to steal blinds and not just raising for value with hands which will dominate us. The same thing applys to 99, either I fold the SB protect my chips and get past bubble or I raise with intent to go AI knowing i've entered the MTT via a sat
Posted by craigcu12

Why on earth would you fold? 

goldnballz

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot:

I don't know. It seems to me like ATo is one of those hands that plays too well in SRPs to just rip in 50bbs because we're 'close to the bubble'. I'm no MTT player so let's make that clear straight away. Right, first of all, I think we're making far too many loose assumptions. How do you know your opponents won't just snap AJs? Did you have any idea at all? Or are you just thinking how you would play? It's all well and good saying "we're not far off the money" & assuming he won't "want to flip for his tourney life with 77" but we have absolutely no idea here. Like I said, using what you would do & then hoping your opponent thinks the same way is clearly a poor strategy. Now I know we don't always have to have complete information to make a play. Poker is a game of incomplete information. But there has to be a cut-off point, a point where risking our entire stack for, if anything, a potential tiny EV gain becomes a blunder. Where is that cut off point? I'd say 50bb is past it. It's one of those "how big is your..." plays imo. A bit like Elon Musk trying to colonise Mars soon. If we're willing to rip in 50bbs with ATo because we're close to the bubble, then I assume you're willing to jam most hands? ATo likely has very poor equity vs any range that calls, so I don't see why not. 
Posted by percival09

We have the guy covered though so it's only 30BB effective.

I like the shove by James. If I'm the 99 guy I'd probably limp/jam as Evilpingu suggests, especially vs an aggressive opponent.

craigcu12

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot:

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot : Why on earth would you fold? 
Posted by percival09

It's got alot to do with pressure, the money I spent for entry and the fact it was live event. When it comes to visual sighting I'm not the best at keeping things hidden, one occassion I was intending to cbet 6500 chips but said 65000 instead, the minute the dealer told me that the bet final bet was 65000 I started shakin badly, luckily the person who I up against did fold but the player sitting next to me said he'd have go all in any day and knew I was worried.

That hand itself was played a long way from the bubble so in a spot such as the 99 things would have been alot worse, I'd have raised pre already concerned that I was OOP if he calls, the flop gives a high card i'm gonna give info away because If I bet i'm showing signs of concern if he actually hits it, If I ch i'm gonna show signs of worry hoping he doesn't bet.

Online poker is different I can grin with hope or shake anxiously as much as I like but nobody else will notice me so my hand strength still won't be known.

Sky__James

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot:

Was worth going home early on Sat night to allow for a clear head on Sunday.
Posted by Donttelmum

Aye, I'm always sensible like that. Next round on me lad!

rspca12

Wp i play same if I was in sb I would be snap calling 99 high fiveing myself. This is a spot we should already no what we doing when we raise the sb before we do it. 

percival09

30bbs, quitting life

bearlyther

I think jamming is a mistake this hand is a clear flat jamming for 30bb seems bad if it was for 20 bb id be fine with it. Jamming is +ev but not optimal. Hes going to have a hand a percentage of the time and when we get called its a disaster for us. Our hand plays fine postflop and we win more chips from letting him barrell the boards that hit us than jamming for 30 bigs effective and having him fold.

percival09

I was actually asking why would you fold  ATo in the BB facing an open, but yeah, the question probably applies more to 99 haha. OK, perhaps in your specific condition I can get behind your reasoning. But I suppose you should have made clear your reasons when writing because those are very specific, like I said, and likely won't apply to the OP. 

GSmith13

Im pretty sure this hand occured well into the money didnt it? I went out in 18th and remember railing this hand with Sam, as the guy who you shoved vs took my seat?

If this is the case it makes the hand quite different, as there isn't any drastic ICM considerations for him (regardless when he decides to raise the sb it is an absolute snap call with 99 IMO). I also feel like his optimal line vs an aggro big stack in BB would be to limp/ shove with his stack size, as you're gonna peel a wide range of hands in the bb, and 99 doesnt play too well post OOP, and this line also gives balance and protects his sb limping range, as he will want to limp a wide range considering antes etc getting 4.6/1 pre.

As played I feel like I would prefer to flat, as you're in position and can outplay opponent on certain boards etc, and when called your most likely going to be in pretty bad shape. You were opening quite alot on that table, with a lot of success, and if he calls and you lose this hand, your ability to open wider and apply big stack pressure with around 15 players left is drastically reduced. 

Sky__James

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot:

Im pretty sure this hand occured well into the money didnt it? I went out in 18th and remember railing this hand with Sam, as the guy who you shoved vs took my seat? If this is the case it makes the hand quite different, as there isn't any drastic ICM considerations for him (regardless when he decides to raise the sb it is an absolute snap call with 99 IMO). I also feel like his optimal line vs an aggro big stack in BB would be to limp/ shove with his stack size, as you're gonna peel a wide range of hands in the bb, and 99 doesnt play too well post OOP, and this line also gives balance and protects his sb limping range, as he will want to limp a wide range considering antes etc getting 4.6/1 pre. As played I feel like I would prefer to flat, as you're in position and can outplay opponent on certain boards etc, and when called your most likely going to be in pretty bad shape. You were opening quite alot on that table, with a lot of success, and if he calls and you lose this hand, your ability to open wider and apply big stack pressure with around 15 players left is drastically reduced. 
Posted by GSmith13

You're right pal it was well into the money. Sam agreed with me in thinking that it was before the bubble. It's all a blur but I got the stack sizes and blinds right I think! Thanks for the advice.

GSmith13

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot:

In Response to Re: SPT - Interesting spot : You're right pal it was well into the money. Sam agreed with me in thinking that it was before the bubble. It's all a blur but I got the stack sizes and blinds right I think! Thanks for the advice.
Posted by Sky__James

Yeah everything else seems right, was good playing with you, I think if you ran better on the FT you probably would have won.