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is poker a game of skill ?
TheMadMonk
Member Posts: 294
in Poker Chat
had this discussion the other night with a few poker mates,
in my opinion,the answer is no,poker is not a game of skill its just a form of gambling
I would go as far as to say there is more skill involved in being a successful horseracing punter or sports better than there is in poker.
if you look at other forms of gambling,like horseracing say,we have the different types of punter,the ones who only bet odds on favs [in poker that's the ones who only play premium hands] or the punters who like to bet the outsiders 33/1 shot etc [in poker,the ones who like to get it in with any two] then theres the pros, winning punters/players ,the difference between them and the ordinary punter/players is they put a lot of work/study in on the subject,they also make less mistakes with their bets,and they know when to walk away.
in poker like in other forms of gambling, sometimes the favs betting players will win,sometimes the outsider betting players will win,longterm it will be the players who study the form and make less betting mistakes who will come out on top.which I suppose could be classed as a skill,but no matter what kind of player you are,its just a gamble imo,
whats your take on it?
in my opinion,the answer is no,poker is not a game of skill its just a form of gambling
I would go as far as to say there is more skill involved in being a successful horseracing punter or sports better than there is in poker.
if you look at other forms of gambling,like horseracing say,we have the different types of punter,the ones who only bet odds on favs [in poker that's the ones who only play premium hands] or the punters who like to bet the outsiders 33/1 shot etc [in poker,the ones who like to get it in with any two] then theres the pros, winning punters/players ,the difference between them and the ordinary punter/players is they put a lot of work/study in on the subject,they also make less mistakes with their bets,and they know when to walk away.
in poker like in other forms of gambling, sometimes the favs betting players will win,sometimes the outsider betting players will win,longterm it will be the players who study the form and make less betting mistakes who will come out on top.which I suppose could be classed as a skill,but no matter what kind of player you are,its just a gamble imo,
whats your take on it?
Comments
But I’m happy that in the UK poker is classed as a game of chance.
Edit
Stupid phone
Alright, in poker there's luck, chance, variance, etc, but I honestly think it's similar to learning a musical instrument in some aspects. There are just so many layers to the strategy and theory and however deep you go, there's always more. Fascinating stuff!
I’ll step in for him
Gary Player
“The more I practice, the luckier I get,”
Masses of luck involed in so many areas of life, whether it be that dream job becoming available at exactly the right time for you, meeting the right person at exactly the right time etc etc
However, having the skill set or the learned knowledge to grasp those opportunities is NOT luck, it is hard work and practice.
I remember the leaders being blown off the golf course in The Open at Muirfield on a crazy Saturday afternoon in 2002, Ernie Els was really not in contention yet went on to win it, he had a skill set built up over years which allowed him to take advantage of that slice of luck.
How many times do we see or hear people whining about how certain players run better than others in MTTs?
Yet no-one mentions the fact that these players are taking huge numbers of beats and indeed busting many, many times.
They keep putting themselves in position and building their stack to allow for the inevitable suck outs, that is the skill of these players, its taking that marginal spot to gain EV, its folding when its -EV, applying pressure at the correct time.
Knowing ICM, SPR, learning to read board textures and how they affect yours and others decisions is NOT luck its a learned skill.
Talking about marky, if you read his blog (I know, I know, most don't have the time
I can only imagine how hard being a musician is, I would imagine many decisions being subjective and perhaps style driven, luck must also play a huge role.
Whatever resonates with client or producer, but that doesn't change the fact that the person who has worked hardest to develop a unique style or become an expert in a specific method will have a better chance of getting the gig (nb musical style language- down with the kids me)
In closing Poker involves a lot of luck, but the skilled player will always end up +EV in the long term.
This graph should settle the debate!
That answers your own question.
In poker you are playing (well the majority of the time) against fellow humans, who can all be flawed and make mistakes.
Both require a lot of dedication and effort, especially now when games are tougher than ever - but there is an endless amount of coaching and training content out there so anyone who wants to get good has never had it so easy.
To be a winner at sports or poker means that you have to be somewhat of an outsider to the general player pool. To be a crusher at either you have to be a genuine outlier, such as Tony Bloom or Fedor Holz.
don't come on here with your concise, to the point observations, when you could write paragraph after paragraph, bit like giving someone a kebab without actually putting it together.....must be a Yorkshire thing
When doing roulette, playing slot machines or blackjack your required to spend money in order to play but in poker 4/6 or 8/10 of the hands are seen for free and you can get an idea of where your hand stands post flop before putting money in therefore with skills you'll learn over time what hands should and shouldn't be played pre and how good your hand will be before choosing to call each street.
Another reason people consider poker gambling is they view skill and luck as opposites, if a game has luck it doesn't have skill therefore poker is viewed as a game of luck. I read a web page once all about skill and luck, it described how skill and luck work and how it varies game by game and mark down in a graph where it would stand. Tic tac toe for instance was described as a game which needed no luck or skill to play, roulette is a game which needs no skill has lots of luck, Chess is a game which would require huge skill but no luck and then you have poker which is a game that requires lots of skill and lots of luck.
Poker does have it's times when the player expected to win a hand doesn't win and tournaments have been won by a recreational player but this happens in many forms of life. Leicester city winning the PL was a major shocker, Iceland knocked england out of euro 2016, Japan beat south africa in rugby world cup, trump is presidient........ This list goes on and on. Whats clear is those who do best are their thanks to skill.
Let me know when you manage it.
Good luck (pun intended).