MTT Newbie - Measuring Progress, Sample Sizes and Realistic Expectations?

Duesenberg

Firstly, apologies if I'm posting this in the wrong section but I'm well aware of how much traffic poker chat gets compared to the rest of the forum (will completely understand if you feel the need to move it Tikay ).

So, I've been almost exclusively a cash game player for donkeys years but have begun 2018 by giving MTT's a bit of a bash in order keep up the overall poker enthusiasm levels. In cash games I'm well versed with things like realistically achievable winrates and the kind of sample sizes needed to judge such things, but haven't got the foggiest when it comes to MTT's. I know figures will be rather swayed by things like average number of runners and whether or not a tournament is a bounty hunter but, given that I'm only playing MTT's on Sky right now, I'd be using the overall Sky schedule as my benchmark. With all that in mind, I'd really appreciate it if any of you tourney whizz kids out there could help by answering any of the following:

1) What kind of minimum sample size would you say we need before we can begin to draw any conclusions from our average ROI?
2) Is average ROI generally the best way to judge performance or are there any additional or alternative metrics I should be looking at as well/instead?
3) Whilst we can't all be Matt Bates, what sort of average ROI figures (or any other measures) should I consider as realistic to aim for? Obviously anything above zero is doing ok but it would nice to have an idea of what's considered 'good'.
4) I there anything else I should consider when it comes to measuring my progress as I venture into a format of this game that is entirely new to me?

Thanks all for any help with the above

TheMadMonk

Duesenberg ,ime not able to answer your questions mate, but to see what is possible to achieve playing on sky,I would recommend aussies site ( Ive not got around to subscribing yet. But I intend to soon) you can check out how other players are doing at all levels,and work out from there what kind of roi is possible on sky,
one of my regrets is when I started playing poker I started with mtts and sit n gos, as I find players who started of playing cash games seem to have a better grasp of the game,most cash players I know who turned to mtts are doing fine,so if you were good at cash you should do fine at mtts mate,good luck.

MattBates

You probably need a better sample size than you have atm as your results will probably be skewed by someone beating your ace high flush draw with a jack high flush draw and that same player beating your aces with a10 aip.

Really not sure on sample required, maybe 1k games. I think you do need a decent sample size as this shows how well you can adapt once other regs get to grips with your game.

Good is a relative term but I would say 20% av ROI is good. If you want to be one of the best you want to be looking at upwards of 40%. I would keep an eye on total ROI as you can have a good av ROI but only be winning well at the lower stake games.

I tend to look at how often I make FTs and my win % from those FTs. MTTs are all about top 3's and also I would be seeing how many bounties you get as if you aren't getting a good bounty count you are leaving £ at the tables. Also I would think about hourly as you can have a great ROI but be 1 tabling.

LARSON7

Don't worry so much about ROI just now, but as Matt said 1000 games is not a bad sample size.

Concentrate on things like ICM, Opening Ranges from each position, Progressing Through a Tournament/ The different stages, changing gears.

Get the correct building blocks in place and the ROI will come.

Post MTT hands up on poker forums too,and gett feedback if you are unsure on a situation.

Tikay10

"...(will completely understand if you feel the need to move it Tikay )"

No no, it's fine here, Dues.

Duesenberg

Thanks @TheMadMonk - I'm familiar with Aussies site but haven't got round to subbing yet either. I have been having a good nose round sharkscope though to get more of an idea of the answers to my questions above. Hopefully in time I can add my name to the list of cash players who have successfully transitioned to MTT's .

@MattBates really appreciate your input - that was just the kind of guidance I was looking for and few are better qualified than your good self to give it. I'd heard rumours about legendary MattBates rungood but had always assumed it was just sour grapes and envy - I might have to reserve judgement now until I have a better sample size!

Thanks too @LARSON7. It took me a fair whack of work off the tables to become a successful cash game player so I'm approaching MTT's in much the same way. I guess it may seem like I'm looking too far ahead but the focus is still very much on the building blocks - I just want to get an idea of what the house may look like once I've finished building it.

JJBinks

GL Duesenberg with the mtt grind,
sure you will do great, you are a solid cash reg so no doubt in your skill level.
get some of that fish on a heater going

Duesenberg

Thanks Binks.

It is taking a little bit of getting used to - I'm still slightly thrown when my stack doesn't automatically top itself up back to 100bb's .