No-one would be "ok" about any needless loss of life. It is a valid point in isolation.
Suppose a terrorist has killed and is holed up with 30 hostages. It happens. More than once every 10 years. Fortunately, most terrorists can be persuaded to surrender, and the sort of shoot-outs loved by film are rare. Would they be so rare if the terrorist knew they faced the death penalty? I think I'd rather face a quick bullet than an electric chair (though neither sounds infinitely preferable).
Then there is the question of being better than murderers. I have never understood the logic of "You put people to death. Therefore we are going to kill you." It makes us no better than them.
Most murderers fill at least 2 of the following criteria: 1. Very poor background; 2. Abnormally low IQ 3. Drug addiction
If people are not poor/stupid/addicted, killing is very rare. I would much rather spend money trying to solve 1/2/3, while of course protecting the public. We could start by investing in education and skills training in prisons, rather than cooping them up 23 hours a day.
I'm not sure I agree with this.
I would probably sway the other way tbh. A high number of murderers and particularly serial killers are highly intelligent and feel the need to kill due to being psychopaths rather than being addicted to drugs.
36 years on Wagner again under suspicion for Natalie Death did he hit her push her overboard, not help her out, how will anyone know except him. Ships Captain kept his job. No Evidence, what Punishment would he get now if proven. Cold Case.
Unlike this case (nailed on) after 31 years child Murderer caught by D.N.A. not in the System at the time, till now. What will he get..... Life ..... 10 years reduced to 7 in the Hilton Hotel. !
Why do people on Holiday not want to be bang'ed up abroad. !
As this thread debates capital punishment, maybe worth reminding ourselves that on this day in 2000, Dr Harold Shipman was found guilty of the murder of 15 of his patients.
It later emerged that he had murdered at least 218, possibly as many as 250, 80% of whom were elderly women.
Generally, I'm against capital punishment but in favour of life meaning life( in prison)...
But then again fortunately I haven't had MY mother/father/brother/sister/daughters/sons proven to killed by someone...
Frankly I would then want to have the courage to do the same to them, so at the extreme personal level, eye for an eye I'm afraid....
The typical murderer is nothing like the ones that make headline news, Most are either drug-related, or someone killing partner in a fit of rage. I have the "advantage" of having met a few, although Criminal Law has never really been my thing.
There are a lot more serial killers on TV (Criminal Minds, Dexter etc) than in real life.
It is high time that "Murder" was replaced to reflect a mature society (like almost every other country). We have the bizarre system where someone kills in a one-off act receives mandatory life for Murder (and drink is normally no excuse), whereas a borderline psychopath with major mental health issues invariably gets it reduced to Manslaughter (where the sentence can vary enormously).
There is a natural desire for an eye for an eye, but that doesn't make it right. Vigilantes belong in old Westerns. People often act differently than what they say when faced with real choices.
An example is "Death by Dangerous/Careless Driving". People on the outside demand bigger penalties. People on juries often think "that could have been me" and acquit, sometimes ignoring all the evidence. I believe a lot more murderers would walk free if you had to get 12 people to say someone should be put to death.
"The typical murderer is nothing like the ones that make headline news"
Agreed.
I've had the dubious pleasure of sharing "live" poker tables with no less than 4 chaps who were later convicted of murder.
One of them - Ron Fanellii, aka The Mad Yank, who was a Gutshot regular, stabbed his girlfriend to death whilst in Thailand, stuffed her body in a suitcase, & dumped the suitcase out in the wilds. He got 10 years.
Marcus-Beeb Jones was a regular face on the UK poker circuit, he lived in Kidderminster. He killed his wife whilst in Vegas & dumped her body in the desert, where it lay undiscovered for 16 years. Eventually the body was discovered, minus the head, which was later found 23 miles away. That was the clue that, you know, foul play may have been involved.
He was extradited to the USA in 2013 where he was given a 20 year jail sentence.
When someone in your Family Dies through illness or old age it's hard to bare. Grief sadness horrible time, if your loved one meets their end through murder then anger takes over and the need for Justice is priority. You want to hurt them (badly) I would, but your told you can't take the Law into your own hands the Law will deal with them only to find the soft Judges that elect themselves give meaningless life sentences reduced by parole boards that are non accountable for their actions. It's enough to make you cry as it all comes down to Money, broke Britain we cant afford proper Justice.
"The typical murderer is nothing like the ones that make headline news"
Agreed.
I've had the dubious pleasure of sharing "live" poker tables with no less than 4 chaps who were later convicted of murder.
One of them - Ron Fanellii, aka The Mad Yank, who was a Gutshot regular, stabbed his girlfriend to death whilst in Thailand, stuffed her body in a suitcase, & dumped the suitcase out in the wilds. He got 10 years.
Marcus-Beeb Jones was a regular face on the UK poker circuit, he lived in Kidderminster. He killed his wife whilst in Vegas & dumped her body in the desert, where it lay undiscovered for 16 years. Eventually the body was discovered, minus the head, which was later found 23 miles away. That was the clue that, you know, foul play may have been involved.
He was extradited to the USA in 2013 where he was given a 20 year jail sentence.
Marcus- Beep Jones I had never heard of him until your post and I live in kidderminster
"The typical murderer is nothing like the ones that make headline news"
Agreed.
I've had the dubious pleasure of sharing "live" poker tables with no less than 4 chaps who were later convicted of murder.
One of them - Ron Fanellii, aka The Mad Yank, who was a Gutshot regular, stabbed his girlfriend to death whilst in Thailand, stuffed her body in a suitcase, & dumped the suitcase out in the wilds. He got 10 years.
Marcus-Beeb Jones was a regular face on the UK poker circuit, he lived in Kidderminster. He killed his wife whilst in Vegas & dumped her body in the desert, where it lay undiscovered for 16 years. Eventually the body was discovered, minus the head, which was later found 23 miles away. That was the clue that, you know, foul play may have been involved.
He was extradited to the USA in 2013 where he was given a 20 year jail sentence.
I'm forever sitting on the fence on this topic but regarding wrongful conviction: Death row inmates spend years several years in jail usually before being sentenced to death with never-ending appeals. Thus, it seems unlikely that after so many appeals an innocent person would be sentenced to death. That said after watching many TV programmes where you see planting evidence, faking forensics it does still leave me with a doubt as to how easy that kind of stuff can be done in reality.
The other point I wanted to make is this: Is spending life in prison for a crime you didn't commit any worse than getting the death penalty? Ofc there's the slim chance you might get out some day but if you didn't get your conviction quashed with so many appeals then the chance you get out in your life-time is probably pretty slim too.
Oklahoma USA which supports Death Penalty had so many botched Executions they had to stop after Human rights protesters complained. Now they are Experimenting with " Nitrogen" and looking for volunteers to test new method. Anyone interested.............. ?
No Forensic Science or D.N.A. them day's, so if you looked dodgy or holding hands with bad people you got the chop, for the relatives today, nice to know your ancestors weren't Murderers.
Comments
I would probably sway the other way tbh. A high number of murderers and particularly serial killers are highly intelligent and feel the need to kill due to being psychopaths rather than being addicted to drugs.
Unlike this case (nailed on) after 31 years child Murderer caught by D.N.A. not in the System at the time, till now. What will he get..... Life ..... 10 years reduced to 7 in the Hilton Hotel. !
Why do people on Holiday not want to be bang'ed up abroad. !
But then again fortunately I haven't had MY mother/father/brother/sister/daughters/sons proven to killed by someone...
Frankly I would then want to have the courage to do the same to them, so at the extreme personal level, eye for an eye I'm afraid....
There are a lot more serial killers on TV (Criminal Minds, Dexter etc) than in real life.
It is high time that "Murder" was replaced to reflect a mature society (like almost every other country). We have the bizarre system where someone kills in a one-off act receives mandatory life for Murder (and drink is normally no excuse), whereas a borderline psychopath with major mental health issues invariably gets it reduced to Manslaughter (where the sentence can vary enormously).
There is a natural desire for an eye for an eye, but that doesn't make it right. Vigilantes belong in old Westerns. People often act differently than what they say when faced with real choices.
An example is "Death by Dangerous/Careless Driving". People on the outside demand bigger penalties. People on juries often think "that could have been me" and acquit, sometimes ignoring all the evidence. I believe a lot more murderers would walk free if you had to get 12 people to say someone should be put to death.
"The typical murderer is nothing like the ones that make headline news"
Agreed.
I've had the dubious pleasure of sharing "live" poker tables with no less than 4 chaps who were later convicted of murder.
One of them - Ron Fanellii, aka The Mad Yank, who was a Gutshot regular, stabbed his girlfriend to death whilst in Thailand, stuffed her body in a suitcase, & dumped the suitcase out in the wilds. He got 10 years.
Marcus-Beeb Jones was a regular face on the UK poker circuit, he lived in Kidderminster. He killed his wife whilst in Vegas & dumped her body in the desert, where it lay undiscovered for 16 years. Eventually the body was discovered, minus the head, which was later found 23 miles away. That was the clue that, you know, foul play may have been involved.
He was extradited to the USA in 2013 where he was given a 20 year jail sentence.
British gambler Marcus Bebb-Jones jailed for US killing - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22377857
That is some tilt you must have put them on.
The other point I wanted to make is this: Is spending life in prison for a crime you didn't commit any worse than getting the death penalty? Ofc there's the slim chance you might get out some day but if you didn't get your conviction quashed with so many appeals then the chance you get out in your life-time is probably pretty slim too.
If you take out the headline-making few (the ones everyone knows), then it is little over 10 years.
I don't want to live in a Society that supports State Murder, which is what Capital Punishment is.
Now they are Experimenting with " Nitrogen" and looking for volunteers to test new method. Anyone interested.............. ?
No Forensic Science or D.N.A. them day's, so if you looked dodgy or holding hands with bad people you got the chop, for the relatives today, nice to know your ancestors weren't Murderers.
Oops! we made mistake.! pardoned after 140 years
Career Criminals target 78 year old Pensioner ..... not the pushover they thought.