Two Street Hand

mcglynn07

Just after opinion really please guys. Do i lose value by checking back flush on turn. I did not want him to stop putting money in pot (thought during game play) after flop raise but now after thinking about it I lost value by taking this line. With his range I want to get called on river so I elect for one third pot. But can get called by other flushes and lesser hands. Just trying to improve my win rate for this one. I am cut off here and never realised the flush turn paired the board increasing the hands/range I can get value from?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Hypervenom	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.98
wrapzy	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.17
	Your hole cards	J A
JohnR14	Fold
BigRedFrd	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£6.84
mcglynn07	Raise		£0.16	£0.26	£3.84
Hutch_AV	Call		£0.16	£0.42	£6.26
Hypervenom	Fold
wrapzy	Fold
BigRedFrd	Call		£0.12	£0.54	£6.72
Flop
		2 Q 7
BigRedFrd	Check
mcglynn07	Bet		£0.24	£0.78	£3.60
Hutch_AV	Raise		£0.75	£1.53	£5.51
BigRedFrd	Fold
mcglynn07	Call		£0.51	£2.04	£3.09
Turn
		2
mcglynn07	Check
Hutch_AV	Check
River
		10
mcglynn07	Bet		£0.72	£2.76	£2.37
Hutch_AV	Call		£0.72	£3.48	£4.79
mcglynn07	Show	J A
Hutch_AV	Muck	Q A
mcglynn07	Win	Flush to the Ace	£3.21		£5.58

Thanks
Danny

JJBinks

Hi Danny

At the stakes you play the main focus should be value, value, value, yes the turn has paired the board, but you still have a lot of value to be gained from betting, also go for bigger sizing's with bigger hands like the hand you have, generally players play straight forward and play the hands face up so if he raises you on turn or river you can re evaluate the situation.

but really focus on value betting and extracting as much value as you can from the big hands I.E top of your range, they will let you know when you are beat.

mcglynn07

Thanks JJ Binks
I think my description was wrong. I am trying to have a plan for the hand from start to finish and then value becomes an avenue from the plan. Should have been 6x min raise pre to build the pot for more betting streets so we can get stacks in.
1) My flop bet should have been bigger than 44% of pot. MISTAKE
The thought at flop raise was get it in but i dont want to be the guy getting stacks in with nutted flush draw. Rather than thinking I have nut flush draw, backdoor straight draw and an over and I am very live here.
2) Flop raise stopped me from leading turn as I thought I need him to bet. When I should be thinking I need to keep growing the pot as I have the best hand probably 80% of the time. I was not aware that my flush card turn paired the board so now he has more incentive to call as he has the implied odds to call and house up even though he may think I have the flush. Mistake
3) I know he is paying attention as he checks flush card but does he have the discipline to call turn yet fold river. Mistake
4) I never gave him the opportunity to find out as if I bet turn and he calls and then stack him river when he cant give up two Pair. Mistake

SO a plan for the hand should now read

5x 6x open pre after 1x limp
If checked to flop lead ace high, broadway draws j low low boards and flush draws
Turn Lead 65%-75% (£1.50)Pot as he has house out if has ( 2 pair ) queens and twos he an also have other flushes here and other pairs but not really pairs higher than queens as played
bomb river for remainder of stack (£1.90) and put him to the test and be difficult and see if he can fold two pair hand

apologies if this is a rambling post but just trying to improve upon thoughts during game - did not realise paired board on turn meant I missed a betting street with my flush and tried to get value from one pair to pair hands on river I never got the stack and I did not deserve to as multi-tabling but small detail like this needs attention so busy thinking of my flush I screwed it up - those are the breaks

thanks danny

LARSON7

His Super nutted value hands are 22 and 77 when the 2 falls on the turn it reduces set combos, discounting QQ from his range, as I doubt he is limp calling it.

It's unlikely he has 27, or Q2, he can have Q7 suited or os

Making the nut flush, you check in flow.

It checks behind, now we can be quite confident we have the best hand.

You can certainly lead the turn, but checking is good too.

On the river after villain has checked the turn you want to bet big for value, something around £1.50 is good.

As JJ said, at 4nl, you just want to take it down to value town, so with your big hands make your opponents pay!

mcglynn07

Thanks to JJ Binks and Larson for the comments . VALUE TOWN is where its at.
Danny

j_h_christ

I think flop and turn play also depends on any reads or assumptions you have about villain. If he is LAGgy then by all means try to Gii on the flop facing the raise, but if he seems loose passive then i like bet/call flop better, as you are a 2/1 dog against that kind of flop raising range. In a read-less vacuum leading turn is prolly better as this particular turn gives you the virtual nuts the vast majority of the time, and he has very few sets that boat up to beat you as it is unlikely he just cold calls QQ preflop vs a late position raise, so you are only losing to 1 combo of 22 and 3 combos of 77.

At these stakes play is mostly passive and call-y so you have to do the betting when a scary card comes that happens to make you the virtual nuts. This would also allow you to comfortably gii on the river if he overvalues his TPTK, lower flush or has random trips, as many players at 4nl do. Just my quick thoughts on the situation, will update if i think of owt else later.