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OLD STYLE BETS
vaigret
Member Posts: 16,316
Following on from my discussion with STAYORGO re bets and their good and bad, reminds me of bets that were available in the past , their merits, if any and whether they available today.
One I remember dabbling with in my early days was the Union Jack, dont reckon available nowadays, definitely online I would suggest but do the bookies have the slips in their shops still.
Of course you could still do it but would have to list each of the 8 trebles online, and it doesnt seem the same as that lovely pattern.
Anybody else remember doing odd style bets and are they still available. Stop at loser, Stop at winner , up and downs, ATC etc
Father V
ps union jack 8 trebles from 9 selections and idea was to have your banker in middle square
One I remember dabbling with in my early days was the Union Jack, dont reckon available nowadays, definitely online I would suggest but do the bookies have the slips in their shops still.
Of course you could still do it but would have to list each of the 8 trebles online, and it doesnt seem the same as that lovely pattern.
Anybody else remember doing odd style bets and are they still available. Stop at loser, Stop at winner , up and downs, ATC etc
Father V
ps union jack 8 trebles from 9 selections and idea was to have your banker in middle square
Comments
Never did it 'coz never knew what it was about tbh
Typically a very good earner for the bookie.
For those that don't know what it looked like. It was like a noughts and crosses board, and you had to get a line of winners (vertical, horizontal or diagonal) to get your treble(s) up.
So effectively as Vaigret says it was nine selections, eight trebles (three horizontal, three vertical and two diagonal) with the centre square being in four of the trebles, the corner squares being in three and the middle/edge squares being in two.
So you put your banker in the middle as Vaigret says, followed by your 4 NB's in the corners.
Took all the bets that V refers to in his opening post. Any to come, stop at winners, stop at losers, stop at two losers even. The ALL E/W multiples bet was not a bad one for the punter, rather than standard E/W multiples.
Other bets included Round Robins, the permed patents that Wynne so likes, although I think permed Lucky 15's are better now with the bonuses and consolations. A Round Robin was basically a Trixie with 3 up and down singles stakes bets.
There was a real "culture" in the olden days for flashy and "bespoke" type of bets, all were fun for the punters and quite profitable for the bookies. Everyone would have their personal "favourite." People rarely got their returns right, and often even the bookies messed it up pre computer time.
My Dad used to, and still does, like doing 6 horses in a perm of E/W UP and Down Double stakes. Always gets settled incorrectly too, he often gets the number of lines wrong when he writes the bet out, not really the most ev bet lol, but what can you do, he likes doing it and at 85 years old. I am not going to spoil his fun now. :=)
So you can still do them online with some sites (not all)
You would have to add them to your bet slip in the correct order. One would assume that your 5th selection is the centre square, 1st selection top left corner and 9th selection bottom right corner, and so on in between.
Maybe for a bit of fun, we can do a very low stake UNION JACK bet, as a side thing on Friday, with the most NAP'd horse as selection 5. (IE centre square)
It would basically be 8 trebles as follows
SELECTIONS
A,B,C
A,E,I
A,D,G
B,E,H
C,E,G
C,F,I
D,E,F
G,H,I
Where A is the first selection on the betting slip and I is the last (9th).
Ha, great thread, this, really takes me back.
Another favoured bet back in the day - & I'm talking 50 years or so - went something like this;
"2.30 Haydock - K Payne's Sel"
That meant we were betting on whatever horse Ken Payne had in the race. He often entered 7 or 8, usually in sellers or maidens, then left one in, & that would be the one we were on. Often he left several in, so the rule was we were on the one with the shortest price SP.
Ken Payne was as bent as a nine bob note, & everyone knew that. Except me, probably.
He was known as the King of the Sellers, as his horses were all woefully bad, but by ducking & diving he got by somehow. He also had the nick "Window", as in "Window Payne".....
If anyone likes a good non-fiction horse racing book, "The Coup" is a great read, it's effectively the story of Ken Payne's life as a trainer. I don't recall how it all ended for Ken, but I know it ended badly. Any time he had a nice win, drugs, sex & gambling absorbed the cash pretty quickly.
Great read.
I used to punt on the dogs, too, & always had the same bet, which would be reverse forecast doubles on Traps 1 & 6 in an 8 race card, so that was 112 bets. Started off doing them for a penny (old penny), then moved up to 10p (new money) so £11.20. God knows how much I lost over the years, though this was 50 years ago before I learned what a mug bet it was.
My Dad loved all those weird accas - Heinz, Yankee, Super Yankee, Trixie, Round Robin. The bookies loved them even more of course.....
We were only about 15 and had a great time spent in the bookies, hiding round the back, doggin school.
If it was a long race say mile and half or longer we used to wait and see what was looking the best after 3 or 4 furlongs, write a line out take it to one of the gals at the window say to her "the race has just started can we put the bet on" the answer was always "nae problem son", if the bet stoated they always paid out great times.
Lets say you did a £1 LUCKY 15, total cost £15, and all the four horses in it were 3/1
ONE WINNER YOU GET: £7.00 (Due to double the odds)
TWO WINNERS: £24.00
THREE WINNERS: £124.00
FOUR WINNERS: £624 + £93.60 bonus = £717.60
In the pre computer days, an easy way of calculating LUCKY's and indeed a variation on the formula for trixies, yankees, canadians, goliath etc returns would be as follows:
Add two to the price of all your winners. Multiply them together and then subtract one. Multiply by unit stake and add any bonuses.
So in the case of the above, it would be (5*5*5*5)-1 = £624 (You'd then add the bonus.)
Say you had three winners at odds of 8/1, 5/1 and 6/4 and the fourth one lost.
Using the above your returns would be (10*7*3.5)-1 =£244.00
Of course we have websites that do all this stuff now, but as a bookmaker it was so much easier to do the above than work out each winning line individually as below:
SINGLE A: £9.00
SINGLE B: £6.00
SINGLE C: £2.50
DOUBLE AB: £54.00
DOUBLE AC: £22.50
DOUBLE BC: £15.00
TREBLE ABC: £135.00
TOTAL: £244.00
But clearly just doing 10*7*3.5 then subtracting 1 is easier.
But if you do say four 3/1 shots, getting almost half your stake back if only one of them wins, is not too bad a consolation imo.
Typically you could expect to get at least half your stack back two times out of three, which funds more attempts at trying to get two, but preferably three or four winners.
Note for Wynne perhaps. I saw you took my advise re bet structure. IE LUCKY 15 with singles doubles and trebles added on. And it is fine what you have done. But typically I would do the LUCKY 15 type of bet on horses that are slightly bigger in price than three of the four of your selections.
Although of course with the short prices that you have, you do indeed stand a better chance of getting the 15% bonus if all 4 win.
Just a little note for you going forward.
Best of luck!
Those were the days, not the same sitting in front of a screen . One thing i miss about not going in the bookies
@daphne56 yes can well remember the days of tax on a bet & always paid it beforehand lol
To add to this post i was trying to find a horse that was regualarly taken to the Scottish Festival in the seventies when it included Lanark. it was a sprinter called Gold Something and I thought it was trained by A Bailey but that could be way out.
I do remember it was a money spinner for me one year when I was on holiday in a book makers in Bath . It ran at least four times and won three and all at goodish prices as nobody thought it could win day after day. Those were the days.
anyway in looking for details of the horse came across Ken Payne who loved the sellers at Lanark and the festival and apparently was a legend up there.
V
PS RABDENIRO, BRING BACK ANY MEMORIES
Caribbean Boy - Yarmouth specialist.
Standaan - my favourite horse ever - white sprinter who loved firm ground.
Just have to make sure I get the horses in the right order on the betting slip.