The 'skill' of overbetting

zenbudhist

I've just been in a 11 quid bounty, not my usual game but since the greedheads ruined the 7 at 7, I've been playing the 7.30 freeze-out. Anyhoo i had taken a xanax earlier and fell asleep during meditation, giving me no choice but to opt for the aforementioned game. Due to a pact with Dave Ulliots old pal (Tiqay) to be cool, i will not mention names. But a player - who has a reasonable reputation - got into a little difficulty. He got out of this Hades by overbetting 'specially when few players remained - it worked, he was still on the final table when i got put out. My question , put perfectly reasonably, is this considered a valid strategy. It's risky and unskilled but is it good poker ?

FeelGroggy

Yeah. Overbetting is a really good play to have in your arsenal, although more relevant in deeper stacked play so you can still get in stacks playing deeper. Pretty reasonable to pull it out when its a spot you have a range advantage as your gonna put your opponent in a tough spot with many of his holdings. I think for £11 bh's you probably just want to play full exploit. Overbet value in a spot you think someone will call too much, and consider doing it as a bluff if you expect to get a lot of folds.

MattBates

Good analysis from groggster but assuming I am said player I don't think Zen actually understands the term overbetting so analysis isn't relevant here.

zenbudhist

Aw haw ... you didn't have enough chips to dare try to overbet value . It was raise and hope, you were just lucky no-one had a hand to call you. Some of the bets might not of been larger than the pot but they were definately scare bets.
p.s. how did you know it was you i was referring to if you weren't overbetting?

kapowblamz

If your opponents range is super capped then you can debate an overbet. Knowing when your opponent is capped is not so 'unskilled' like you say.

MattBates

There was only 4 players left when you exited so it is easy to work out you are referring to me. I don't think you mean overbetting as other poker players would understand. Overbetting as groggy/kapow are referring to is betting say 200% pot on the river (there is a lot of skill to plays like this if you are doing them correctly). At no point do I recall anyone doing that late on in that tournament.

I believe you are referring to me shoving for say 10-15bb which is a very standard play. Just because you don't understand the merits of a play doesn't mean you should say it is unskilled and you could improve your game by trying to understand the plays people are making. When we are below 20bb then there isn't going to be lots of play down the streets and understanding open jamming/3b jamming/calling ranges is a key part of tournament poker.

Also, just want to clarify, at no point did I feel in difficulty in that £11bh.

Angmar2626

Matt Bates confirmed scared money in £11 tournaments

zenbudhist

"There was only 4 players left when you exited so it is easy to work out you are referring to me"
I never said any number left at the table. What about the other's are they too scared to belittle such a respected player?

Jac35

zenbudhist said:

"There was only 4 players left when you exited so it is easy to work out you are referring to me"
I never said any number left at the table. What about the other's are they too scared to belittle such a respected player?

It could be that
Or it could be that they have a brain

K0BAYASHl

zenbudhist said:

"There was only 4 players left when you exited so it is easy to work out you are referring to me"
I never said any number left at the table. What about the other's are they too scared to belittle such a respected player?

You said final table which on sky would mean only 6 players left. So 5 players you could be talking about if your not talking about your self.

mumsie

zenbudhist said:

"There was only 4 players left when you exited so it is easy to work out you are referring to me"
I never said any number left at the table. What about the other's are they too scared to belittle such a respected player?

If you intended to belittle anyone you succeeded, pat yourself on the back whilst looking in the mirror.

MattBates

zenbudhist said:

"There was only 4 players left when you exited so it is easy to work out you are referring to me"
I never said any number left at the table. What about the other's are they too scared to belittle such a respected player?

What you are saying doesn't actually make sense is the issue. You are using terms incorrectly which will mean something else to people as shown by the response from groggy. Feel free to belittle my play but that isn't what you are doing. I am sure many people have issue with some of the plays I make and poker is a game of opinions. When you say things like "raise and hope" and "scared bets" it just comes across like a random rant.

zenbudhist

Oh Matty you informed me if I asked a reasonable question in a reasonable way i wouldn't be subjected to pathetic attempts of humour or ridicule but yet here we are again . I was actually referring to the previous table when you were short stack. i didn't notice any fancy theory then , it was like playing with a desperate fish. Throwing chips in like a hopeful wee boy. You forget all those 'usual suspects' who run to support the great Matt Bates wern't there, I WAS I SAW WHAT HAPPENED . But there's always one fish that wriggles his way out eh? If you were half a man you wouldn't try and turn it round on me by not understanding the great man's strategy. Only a conceited creep would answer in such a manner. Or an 'effort' as my old man used to say. I bet u were beating off the babes with a shitstick when u were younger eh?

Tikay10

Can we have less of the personal insults please?

TIA

MattBates

Where is your reasonable question?

I am turning it round on you because you have used the term overbetting incorrectly so no one actually understands your question and answers given are answering something completely different.

I think what you are trying to ask is when we have 15bb or less should we be limping or making a small raise or should we be moving all in.

The issue is you cannot coherently ask a question using poker terminology correctly. I am not trying to wriggle out of anything. Understanding shove fold poker and calling ranges is a basic of MTT poker.

If you wish to limp in and make smaller raises from a short stack then that is up to you and is your choice. If your actual question is regarding this then if it is asked in a sensible way I am sure you will get some sensible responses.

kapowblamz

This is ridiculous and Zen you are delusional.

MAXALLY

TBF....he got the Bates is half a man bit right

Enut

Zen, a quick question, what do you expect someone with a short stack to do? Min raise and then fold to a reraise? Flat call and fold to a raise? Just fold until they are blinded out? How much play down the streets do you think is advisable when short stacked?

I think you'll find that @MattBates was almost certainly playing optimally. You will do much better watching how the good players play and learning from them rather than trying to belittle them.

zenbudhist

I'm right I was there

zenbudhist

"If you intended to belittle anyone you succeeded, pat yourself on the back whilst looking in the mirror."

How can i possibly compete with such a silver tongued raconteur, the more i hear from 'the gang' the more i'm thinking this can't be real. I'm not really conversing with real people
The virtual reality does not cease on the playing table, its continued by things on a forum

EvilPingu

zenbudhist said:

The virtual reality does not stop on the playing table its continued by things on a forum

If you don't like it here, you're more than welcome to go and troll somewhere else.