Drink-Driving deaths increased last year. Time to reduce the limits?

Tikay10

For the first time in 8 years (if we believe the stats) deaths in England & Wales attributable to drink-driving increased last year, with the (estimated) figure put at 290.

290 deaths, & every one of them had a family &, in many cases, children. Many of those killed had zero alcohol in their blood but were in accidents caused by "drunk-drivers".

The limit in England is 80mg per 100ml of blood, which is far & away the highest in Europe. (In Scotland, the limit is 50mg).

Time to reduce the limit, or, Heaven forbid, even reduce it to zero?

Conflict of interest - I have to admit that I've been teetotal for over 50 years, so it's possible I have a biased viewpoint.

Tikay10

And on a similar subject, the penalties for using a mobile-phone whilst driving should be increased too. So many people still use the 'phone whilst driving, & it causes so many needless accidents due to lack of concentration.

I will now dismount my wonderfully high horse.


Conflict of interest - many years ago, I was caught using my 'phone whilst driving. Never again, trust me, silliest thing ever.

dobiesdraw

Had a short ride in a taxi , from the train station yesterday and had to tell the driver to put his seatbelt on . The seatbelt alarm was bleeping away from the start of the journey , so it's not like he didn't know what he was doing .

Seems crazy to me to have any sort of alcohol limit , of course it should be zero .
Hit people who use their mobile phones whilst driving, harder ..and give them an instant ban .

Essexphil

Tikay10 said:

For the first time in 8 years (if we believe the stats) deaths in England & Wales attributable to drink-driving increased last year, with the (estimated) figure put at 290.

290 deaths, & every one of them had a family &, in many cases, children. Many of those killed had zero alcohol in their blood but were in accidents caused by "drunk-drivers".

The limit in England is 80mg per 100ml of blood, which is far & away the highest in Europe. (In Scotland, the limit is 50mg).

Time to reduce the limit, or, Heaven forbid, even reduce it to zero?

Conflict of interest - I have to admit that I've been teetotal for over 50 years, so it's possible I have a biased viewpoint.

It is impossible to reduce it to 0. This is because certain cancers produce alcohol as a by-product.

The 50mg limit is used in the majority of countries and should be adopted here.

It bugs me that we just concentrate on bans and fines. Other countries do far more to actually help, such as education, duties on pubs/clubs and devices that prevent people getting in the car while over the limit.

Essexphil

Tikay10 said:

And on a similar subject, the penalties for using a mobile-phone whilst driving should be increased too. So many people still use the 'phone whilst driving, & it causes so many needless accidents due to lack of concentration.

I will now dismount my wonderfully high horse.


Conflict of interest - many years ago, I was caught using my 'phone whilst driving. Never again, trust me, silliest thing ever.

The problem is-if you have very few policeman on the streets, people know the chance of being caught is tiny. Penalties are irrelevant if people are confident they won't get caught.

Tikay10

Type your comment

dobiesdraw said:

Had a short ride in a taxi , from the train station yesterday and had to tell the driver to put his seatbelt on . The seatbelt alarm was bleeping away from the start of the journey , so it's not like he didn't know what he was doing .

Seems crazy to me to have any sort of alcohol limit , of course it should be zero .
Hit people who use their mobile phones whilst driving, harder ..and give them an instant ban .

We are of one mind, I agree with that 100%.

dobiesdraw

Essexphil said:

Tikay10 said:

For the first time in 8 years (if we believe the stats) deaths in England & Wales attributable to drink-driving increased last year, with the (estimated) figure put at 290.

290 deaths, & every one of them had a family &, in many cases, children. Many of those killed had zero alcohol in their blood but were in accidents caused by "drunk-drivers".

The limit in England is 80mg per 100ml of blood, which is far & away the highest in Europe. (In Scotland, the limit is 50mg).

Time to reduce the limit, or, Heaven forbid, even reduce it to zero?

Conflict of interest - I have to admit that I've been teetotal for over 50 years, so it's possible I have a biased viewpoint.

It is impossible to reduce it to 0. This is because certain cancers produce alcohol as a by-product.

The 50mg limit is used in the majority of countries and should be adopted here.

It bugs me that we just concentrate on bans and fines. Other countries do far more to actually help, such as education, duties on pubs/clubs and devices that prevent people getting in the car while over the limit.

These countries manage with that model : Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia all have a zero limit.

Tikay10

I am sure the Laws could be framed to make due allowances for the medically-induced things that @Essexphil noted.

Imagine if some needless tragedy occurred in England today that killed 290 people - there'd be outrage. Grenfell, for example, killed 71 souls. Drink-driving in England & Wales kills 4 times that - every year.

Essexphil

I have had the advantage of being in a working party on this subject some 30 years ago.

The reason I know fine well that a 0 limit is impossible is because it was me who suggested it. The Chair of the working party that explained to me, kindly and in detail, was Barbara Castle-the person who has done more than anyone else to combat this problem.

Alcohol does not impair the ability to drive at low levels. So (for example) half a weak lager shandy taken 3 hours before driving on a full stomach for a healthy person has no impact on ability to drive.

There is a lot of conflicting evidence about when the ability to drive is significantly impaired by alcohol. It is not 0, but it is certainly less than 80mg. 50mg is the commonly accepted threshold. The fact that England's is 60% higher than that is wholly wrong.

Drink-driving is undoubtedly still a problem. However, drug driving is overtaking it, according to various police forces-fortunately, the ability to test for such things has improved enormously recently.

Tikay10

Type your comment

Essexphil said:

I have had the advantage of being in a working party on this subject some 30 years ago.

The reason I know fine well that a 0 limit is impossible is because it was me who suggested it. The Chair of the working party that explained to me, kindly and in detail, was Barbara Castle-the person who has done more than anyone else to combat this problem.

Alcohol does not impair the ability to drive at low levels. So (for example) half a weak lager shandy taken 3 hours before driving on a full stomach for a healthy person has no impact on ability to drive.

There is a lot of conflicting evidence about when the ability to drive is significantly impaired by alcohol. It is not 0, but it is certainly less than 80mg. 50mg is the commonly accepted threshold. The fact that England's is 60% higher than that is wholly wrong.

Drink-driving is undoubtedly still a problem. However, drug driving is overtaking it, according to various police forces-fortunately, the ability to test for such things has improved enormously recently.

Well if not 0%, & I understand very low levels of alcohol on the blood may not impair our abilities, at least let's reduce it significantly. We have, I believe, the highest limits in Europe. Must be some room for manoeuvre there.

dobiesdraw

Essexphil said:

I have had the advantage of being in a working party on this subject some 30 years ago.

The reason I know fine well that a 0 limit is impossible is because it was me who suggested it. The Chair of the working party that explained to me, kindly and in detail, was Barbara Castle-the person who has done more than anyone else to combat this problem.

Alcohol does not impair the ability to drive at low levels. So (for example) half a weak lager shandy taken 3 hours before driving on a full stomach for a healthy person has no impact on ability to drive.

There is a lot of conflicting evidence about when the ability to drive is significantly impaired by alcohol. It is not 0, but it is certainly less than 80mg. 50mg is the commonly accepted threshold. The fact that England's is 60% higher than that is wholly wrong.

Drink-driving is undoubtedly still a problem. However, drug driving is overtaking it, according to various police forces-fortunately, the ability to test for such things has improved enormously recently.

If it's impossible , then how do the countries who have implemented it get on ?

Essexphil

Tikay10 said:

Type your comment

Essexphil said:

I have had the advantage of being in a working party on this subject some 30 years ago.

The reason I know fine well that a 0 limit is impossible is because it was me who suggested it. The Chair of the working party that explained to me, kindly and in detail, was Barbara Castle-the person who has done more than anyone else to combat this problem.

Alcohol does not impair the ability to drive at low levels. So (for example) half a weak lager shandy taken 3 hours before driving on a full stomach for a healthy person has no impact on ability to drive.

There is a lot of conflicting evidence about when the ability to drive is significantly impaired by alcohol. It is not 0, but it is certainly less than 80mg. 50mg is the commonly accepted threshold. The fact that England's is 60% higher than that is wholly wrong.

Drink-driving is undoubtedly still a problem. However, drug driving is overtaking it, according to various police forces-fortunately, the ability to test for such things has improved enormously recently.

Well if not 0%, & I understand very low levels of alcohol on the blood may not impair our abilities, at least let's reduce it significantly. We have, I believe, the highest limits in Europe. Must be some room for manoeuvre there.

50mg should be the rule now, and detailed studies to see if it could be reduced further. 80mg is unsustainable.

pompeynic

It is easy for me as I don’t drink.
Having said that, I have never understood why people get behind the wheel having had a drink.
I ruined someone’s Christmas once, we were all out on Christmas Eve at a party, this lady was telling us how she had to get up early the next morning to go and see her nephew thirty miles away. “Is hubby driving?” I asked, No came the answer. I proceeded to unveil a possible scenario of her turning into the driveway, nephew running out excited to see her, late reactions due to alcohol intake and a Christmas in jail for her and in hospital or worse for her beloved nephew.
I don’t care about the abuse I received, or that she never misses a chance to bring it up when I see her, I am just glad that a taxi driver charged her a ridiculous sum of money the next day and her nephew has grown up to enjoy life and his auntie.

K0BAYASHl

dobiesdraw said:

Had a short ride in a taxi , from the train station yesterday and had to tell the driver to put his seatbelt on . The seatbelt alarm was bleeping away from the start of the journey , so it's not like he didn't know what he was doing .

Seems crazy to me to have any sort of alcohol limit , of course it should be zero .
Hit people who use their mobile phones whilst driving, harder ..and give them an instant ban .

Taxi drivers dont have to wear a seatbelt if they have a fare.

dobiesdraw

K0BAYASHl said:

dobiesdraw said:

Had a short ride in a taxi , from the train station yesterday and had to tell the driver to put his seatbelt on . The seatbelt alarm was bleeping away from the start of the journey , so it's not like he didn't know what he was doing .

Seems crazy to me to have any sort of alcohol limit , of course it should be zero .
Hit people who use their mobile phones whilst driving, harder ..and give them an instant ban .

Taxi drivers dont have to wear a seatbelt if they have a fare.

Didn't know that ...still bloo dy stupid not to wear one .

MattBates

dobiesdraw said:

K0BAYASHl said:

dobiesdraw said:

Had a short ride in a taxi , from the train station yesterday and had to tell the driver to put his seatbelt on . The seatbelt alarm was bleeping away from the start of the journey , so it's not like he didn't know what he was doing .

Seems crazy to me to have any sort of alcohol limit , of course it should be zero .
Hit people who use their mobile phones whilst driving, harder ..and give them an instant ban .

Taxi drivers dont have to wear a seatbelt if they have a fare.

Didn't know that ...still bloo dy stupid not to wear one .

Exactly, legal or not, why wouldn't you wear one?

K0BAYASHl

I would probably wear one too. I wear one all the time in the car. But the reason they dont wear a seat belt is for their own safety. Specially if a stranger is sat behind you and not passenger seat.